So you are the one who wants to change the status of the nation then, got it.
Very happy now we have a road map to a UI actually.
So you won't be scaremongering or talking about the sky falling when we come to a UI.
I am not looking to change the status of the nation either. Happy that we stay as we are, aren't you?
I'm not looking to change the status of the nation over it, no.
Everyone has issues with the public not voting how you'd like. Are you telling me that you are 100% happy with the fact that the country elected a FF/FG/Green government?
You have issues with the public not voting how you'd like. Fits in well with the DUP. I can see why you support partition and claim 'we' voted for it.
Oh dear, oh dear. Who said I didn't like democracy?
I dislike a certain type of political party, that is what democracy is about. I dislike the way that a certain party tried to subvert democracy after the last election by claiming that because they were the biggest party, they should form the government. They were left standing alone, suitably so.
So its democracy you don't like. I can see why you defend the partition.
No, the exclusionary aspect of national sentiment is dangerous in many places. The Brexit parties in the UK, Le Pen in France, Trump in the US, Sinn Fein in Ireland, all sides of the same ugly nationalist coin.
You cited 'the exclusionary aspect of national sentiment' as being dangerous. So I was asking is it just when its Ireland?
Religions have an unhindered time if it in the south. As yet we've no party in power trying to censor or stifle Religious freedom or culture.
You raised all these things as a point of concern for a UI.
I don't see SF engaging in any of this either.
Because he's divisive and loves to virture signal. He's into identity politics in a big way because he really has nothing to offer anyone in a positive way. Remember this clanger?
https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1293663127809204233?t=Co9dLF-Qrh9obPolFIjMXQ&s=19
While I agree with you on the most part about basically suggesting there's religious harmony here. I reluctantly have to point something out to you about religion in politics here.
The last politican I recall trying to introduce a bit of religious (before that it was race and sexuality)divide and animosity into politics here was (ironically enough) not from SF, but rather FG.
Most of us carryon in our daily lives more or less not paying attention, or caring what religious practices anyone follows, so why the Tanaiste of the state felt the need to introduce it into political debate was baffling to be honest.
Ms Wynne said that claim was false, adding: "While nobody in Sinn Féin has ever made an issue of my religious views, it is not acceptable for the tánaiste to do so."
Didn't reflect well, proper own goal in my opinion.
What have the Ulster Scots, Scots and Welsh got to do with Sinn Fein?
Thing is, we don't have all religions happy as pigs in shite in the South.
A UI isn't coming closer, but that's for that thread.
Thats not related to the question I was attending to, but no matter. Some people think repuicanism is owned by SF.
So do you feel the ulster Scots, Scots and Welsh get a raw deal compared to the English?
The thing is we have all religions happy as pigs in shite in the south. So you are basing what bothers you on a bias towards anything you associate with SF.
When a UI comes closer we'll see all the commonwealth leaning try take ownership of republicanism, which will be funny to watch.
Lots of us are comfortable with being Irish, it is the pushing of it onto others that bothers us. The exclusionary aspect of national sentiment is currently the most dangerous ideology in the world. When it is combined with religion as in the Irish republican attitudes in the North, it is not a pretty sight.
Being comfortable with being Irish and wanting a UI.
Prepare yourself. When a UI comes closer you'll see all major parties getting all 'up the RA' as you put it.
Mary Loo playin the pup payment card for all its worth in the dail today. She’d sell her mother for a few votes
Well, as other posters have shown, all there is are hysterical calls for more and more mandatory hotel quarantine. This has been an expensive mistake, but thankfully the government limited the application of it compared to the hysterical calls from Sinn Fein for it "To be as effective as possible, it must cover all non-essential arrivals from all countries. The limited list of 33 countries is not enough."
Anyone, even with little understanding of maths would realise that means a greater cost.
In all fairness, it's hard to keep track of where on the "there goes the mob, we are its leaders, we must follow the mob" curve SF are at any particular moment.
So maybe they meant this
or maybe this
https://extra.ie/2021/05/26/news/politics/louise-oreilly-contradicts-sinn-fein
"She doesn't do figures, neither does Pearse or Eoin, so there are no figures from Sinn Fein!!!!!"
Well, if this is the case, It would appear you have more in common with Sinn Fein representatives than you would like to admit (or realise) blanch152
Fionn1952 had your number earlier (much to your dismay I suspect) you were relying on people who share the same sentiments you do, to read an article you lazily linked to, without perhaps checking the facts, and virtually high fiving and slapping each others backs in the process, partly (I at least admit) guess, because you're relying on the lack of replies from those with an opposing voice, (because of the echo chamber that's been created in here) as a result of those who were willing and well able to question your nonsense, since having their voices castrated, being now directly unable to.
When directly challenged this evening, and given a request to produce figures to make direct comparisons, the above (akin to what a teenager would submit) was given as an attempt at reasoned debate.
Your posts are mere spoofery, with vain hopes of not being called out.
(In my humble opinion)
Say what? Provide figures from Mary-Lou shouting for more MHQ????? She doesn't do figures, neither does Pearse or Eoin, so there are no figures from Sinn Fein!!!!!
Anytime they do do figures, they give us all a laugh.
I would suggest you lost any semblance of sincerity a while back blanch152 when shown to be relying on suppositions and predictions, which are tantamount to licking your own finger, and then holding it up in the breeze.
The poster up above has pointed out the major flaws in your argument, you then appear to actually double down on it, and are now merely "taking things for granted".
As Fionn1952 has suggested, why don't you provide figures and then make the comparison?
Well, I took it for granted that those who read this thread were well aware of SF's calls for more MHQ, many of them were echoing it long enough.
Then as the person making the point that it renders them unfit for government, the responsibility surely lies with you to provide the numbers to support that point instead of expecting everyone to read a, 'SF bad' article and to land in and pat you on the back?
We need the numbers accommodated to make the comparison, not the numbers per capita in the country. As a more open country, we have more visitors, hence one of the reasons I saw it as impractical to bring it in.
None of that invalidates my point however, that those who were calling for more MHQ would have caused an even bigger unnecessary bill and profit for big business hoteliers.
Edit: and all parties support social welfare, but some want higher or lower social welfare rates, and it is valid to criticise that, so ditto applies to levels of MHQ. A bad idea, but those parties that wanted more are worse.
But we haven't confirmed that it is extra waste; you said as much yourself when I provided some figures on what we did spend.
We've actually confirmed that the Irish government spent more, so your point that they took their time and spent less money doesn't hold up either. Just on the few months I found above, the IE spend for Tibco was €8.6m versus the NI spend of £2.6m (€3.1m). With an NI population of ~1.8m, that's a €1.72 spend per capita. With our population of ~5m...that's a delightfully comparable.....€1.72 spend per capita. I love it when numbers make such a wonderfully clear point; I hadn't looked at the per capita numbers before starting this post.
I get that it can be frustrating to get the, 'but FF/FG' response to absolutely any criticism of SF....but when you make a comment about their fitness for government, it is entirely relevant and logical to compare their actions to the current government.
I didn't post to criticise the government, but rather to make the point that you can hardly use SF's support for MHQ as a barometer for their fitness for government when our current government not only supported, but implemented MHQ....or at least one couldn't without also being of the opinion that the current government parties are not fit for government either (or blindly hypocritical as a third option I suppose, but I'd rather presume we're all conversing from an honest position here).
I get that, I have been critical of MHQ from the start, but this is the Sinn Fein thread, criticism of the government position can be done on the government thread. On this particular thread, it is perfectly fine for me to focus on the huge costs involved and that the party which claims it is ready for government wanted even more of it. Sinn Fein were absolutely bull-headed on the issue while the government took its time, and in doing so, spent less money, so it is relevant.
The Children's hospital is costing far too much, but if a party came along and wanted gold-plated emergency rooms and ten more floors, it would be right to point out the extra waste as well.
That's a fair enough point, Blanch (I oppose MHQ as a concept too), but you can't say, 'SF were calling for MHQ.....imagine they were in power here' when those in power here implemented it anyway.
I can understand an across the board criticism or support for it, or I could understand if you could point out some way our government totally differed in their implementation of it, but taking a dig specifically at SF because they might have implemented something that the sitting government actually did implement....well that just reads like your usual SF vendetta where you'll side with anything at all as long as it appears to be critical of them and work out the justification afterwards.
We had an awful lot more in quarantine, but whether we fared better or worse, the lesson to be learned is that compulsory quarantine was a very expensive and pointless exercise, those that called loudest for more of it should be called out for not seeing that.
Reading the article, it appears the cost per head is so high because a relatively small number of people had to be accommodated.
A cost for NI MHQ of £2.6m doesn't actually strike me as quite as awful as the slant the BelTel have tried to stick on it with their, 'per person' line there.
For context, we spent €5.4m on the initial contract with Tifco, €3.2m on a further two month extension.....while also charging the individuals staying €1875 a head. I'm not sure we came out much better?
