N52 - Tullamore to Kilbeggan (M6) [route options published]

Pete_Cavan · 10-11-2020 10:29am

I often wonder is AADT a bit of a blunt instrument sometimes. Probably gives a better indication on commuter routes where a high volume of traffic is concentrated in one direction in the morning and the other direction in the evening, meaning the road is overloaded. On a stretch of road like this, the traffic is probably spread more evenly in both directions over the day. Roads with a similar AADT would be the N3 Cavan bypass and N80 Carlow bypass but I don't think anyone would suggest dual carriageway on them. Also, the biggest constraints after upgrade on this road (N52) will likely be the roundabouts at either end, not the number of lanes in between.

Worth noting that the TII document states for this project; Cross-section: Expressway / TBD. Obviously not yet confirmed. It also states Forecast Cost Range: €80-100m which is based on €10m/km for 2+2 as used elsewhere. Given the route will almost certainly encompass the existing relatively recent good quality sections of N52 at northern and southern end, you are talking about ~3.5km of offline new build 2+2 plus just under 5km of single carriageway upgrade. Around €50m is probably a more accurate cost for 2+2 but even that is ridiculous for a minute or two reduction in journey time and no bottlenecks bypassed. I would see something like the recent N52 Turin to Billistown Realignment as what should happen here. That was 6km of mostly offline new build Type 1 Single Carriageway which cost €12.6m. Something similar between Tullamore and M6 J5 would cost less than €20m. Put the other €30m into an upgrade which bypasses a town and gives a meaningful reduction in journey time, plenty of candidates out there.

medoc · 10-11-2020 11:21am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I often wonder is AADT a bit of a blunt instrument sometimes. Probably gives a better indication on commuter routes where a high volume of traffic is concentrated in one direction in the morning and the other direction in the evening, meaning the road is overloaded. On a stretch of road like this, the traffic is probably spread more evenly in both directions over the day. Roads with a similar AADT would be the N3 Cavan bypass and N80 Carlow bypass but I don't think anyone would suggest dual carriageway on them. Also, the biggest constraints after upgrade on this road (N52) will likely be the roundabouts at either end, not the number of lanes in between.

Worth noting that the TII document states for this project; Cross-section: Expressway / TBD. Obviously not yet confirmed. It also states Forecast Cost Range: €80-100m which is based on €10m/km for 2+2 as used elsewhere. Given the route will almost certainly encompass the existing relatively recent good quality sections of N52 at northern and southern end, you are talking about ~3.5km of offline new build 2+2 plus just under 5km of single carriageway upgrade. Around €50m is probably a more accurate cost for 2+2 but even that is ridiculous for a minute or two reduction in journey time and no bottlenecks bypassed. I would see something like the recent N52 Turin to Billistown Realignment as what should happen here. That was 6km of mostly offline new build Type 1 Single Carriageway which cost €12.6m. Something similar between Tullamore and M6 J5 would cost less than €20m. Put the other €30m into an upgrade which bypasses a town and gives a meaningful reduction in journey time, plenty of candidates out there.

AADT is one of the criteria used in the design of road upgrades. And as you say this project hasn’t been fully designed yet. In the old NRA days it was to be 2+2.

The traffic on this stretch is 3 times higher than the Turin section at 14000. While most of it is commuter traffic it is a little different than ones nearer a city. Traffic out of Tullamore to Dublin starts between 6 and 7 am. Then you have the traffic commuting into Tullamore between 8 and 9. With the opposite from about 5pm to 7 or 8pm. There is also a high number of cross country HGV traffic.

Journey reduction time isn’t the only consideration for a scheme. Traffic safety, local safety and journey reliability are also things to be taken into account.

This road needs to be improved at some stage and it makes sense for 2+2 to be at least a strong contender. No one is saying it’s the most critical scheme in the country or even on the N52 but it has its merits.

KrisW1001 · 10-11-2020 1:35pm

AADT is only one measure, and strictly speaking the 20,000 figure is "Maximum AADT to maintain Level of Service class D or better".

That second bit, Level of Service (LOS), is a rough measure of how freely traffic can flow, rated from Class A to Class F. Ideally, you want class A (all traffic can drive up to the design speed of the road), but in a world without unlimited money and land, you usually have to settle for lower classes of service. D is the last "flowing" traffic class. E and F (the worst) include dramatic slowdowns and (for F) traffic coming to a complete stop.

Commuter routes will occasionally see LOS E and F, but never for very long (it just seems like it, but really it's often less than 5-10 minutes), and because LOS is usually an hourly average across the whole day, this is compensated for by the higher road capacity allowing much freer moving traffic at off-peak times.

Rural roads have a different problem to commuter routes: slow vehicles. Suburban commuters drive up (and beyond) to the permitted speed limit if able to, and only slow down due to the high volume of traffic, but on rural roads, slowdowns are mainly from heavy vehicles that are inherently limited to lower speeds. This creates a different kind of congestion, but it all comes out the same way: a lower Level of Service.

All that said, yes, some routes are being specified at a higher level of service than they might actually need, but there are more factors than just capacity. Dual carriageways avoid the kind of overtaking fatalities that happen regularly on lightly-trafficked rural roads, and there's plenty of evidence that flipping between single and dual carriageway roads increases the risk of accidents.

marno21 · 14-05-2021 10:47pm

Emerging preferred route due this summer. Date tbc.

spacetweek · 15-05-2021 6:54pm

marno21 wrote: »

Emerging preferred route due this summer. Date tbc.

Spoiler: It'll follow the existing route closely.

marno21 · 15-09-2021 8:03pm

Preferred route out Thursday

https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/home/664534/further-public-consultation-to-be-held-on-road-linking-tullamore-to-motorway.html

medoc · 18-09-2021 5:05pm

Prefered route is announced. Making full use of the upgraded bits of the Tullamore bypass and the stretch from the M6 roundabout. (Combining option 2 and 3)

https://www.n52tullamoretokilbeggan.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/N52_PC3_Leaflet-Only_Portrait_A02.pdf

https://www.offalyindependent.ie/2021/09/17/a-proposed-route-corridor-for-the-new-tullamore-to-kilbeggan-road-has-been-published/

Pete_Cavan · 18-09-2021 8:32pm

The logical choice. Looks like there will only be one junction along 8km of road between the existing roundabouts at either end plus a parallel R or L road all the way for local traffic.

[Deleted User] · 08-11-2021 8:25pm

This is a 80 to 100 Million projected cost project. The landscape is not very challenging there. Is there any breakdown on possible costing for the various elements e.g. planning, land acquisition, etc... at this stage beyond what is on n52tullamoretokilbeggan.ie.

Pete_Cavan · 08-11-2021 10:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138068#Comment_118138068

I assume that figure came from the TII update publication? That assumed this project would be T2DC and seemed to value these projects at €10-12m/km. This looks like SC now and a good bit of online reuse so the cost would likely be revised downwards.

[Deleted User] · 08-11-2021 11:41pm

If this is single carraigeway then it is only going to improve travel times marginally. Dawdlers and farmers towing livestock trailers on that road even where it is at its best and widest really have a big impact on travel time for others. While I can be patient and tell myself "give it 10 minutes and you'll reach the motorway" most others aren't that patient and take unnecessary risks. The existing road isn't bad quality road, just heavily used and when those ahead of you decide to do 40km then that is the speed you travel too.

marno21 · 09-11-2021 1:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138730#Comment_118138730

Where is the SC coming from?

The online sections are the approach to the roundabout on the M6 side which is paralleled by the old N52 which could be brought back into use, and south of the R421 which is also paralleled by the old N52 with the upgraded part being WS2 built as part of the Tullamore BP.

Spiaire · 09-11-2021 8:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138909#Comment_118138909

Read the previous posts; this is going to be Type 2 DC.

Pete_Cavan · 09-11-2021 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139223#Comment_118139223

The Preferred Route shows a full movement junction with the R421/L2003 which obviously isn't compatible with DC. North of there could be DC but less than 5km.

Traffic levels don't justify DC, the existing road will remain and will take local/agricultural traffic. Simply building SC between the existing sections of good road at either end is much more likely to happen then building/upgrading to DC for the full length between the roundabouts.

Pete_Cavan · 09-11-2021 9:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139528#Comment_118139528

Based on what?

bennyineire · 09-11-2021 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139691#Comment_118139691

Local/agricultural traffic is negligible on that road IMHO, probably less than 5%. The vast majority of traffic is throughput traffic. Stand at Durrow cross from a hour some day and you will clearly see this in action

[Deleted User] · 09-11-2021 11:08am

I disagree with that statement from experience of using the road. While looking for overtaking opportunities I would be making judgements as to whether the cars approaching and travelling behind or ahead of me are local or passing through.

Irrespective, you will definitely not be reaching 100kmph on that road most of the day even though it is constructed to take cars at that speed.

steeler j · 09-11-2021 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139691#Comment_118139691

What is a full movement junction? . Is it a junction similar to the current junction where the n52/r421 meet

spacetweek · 09-11-2021 9:07pm

I think the tide has turned against road building. If this is built as 2+2 I'll eat my hat. Single carriageway for sure.

marno21 · 10-11-2021 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143221#Comment_118143221

Maybe in Dublin and in the inner workings of Eamon Ryan’s head sure, but there’s a real world out there outside of Dublin where road building is necessary for connectivity and this is fully supported in the National Planning Framework. There are also political considerations there and the world outside the middle class suburbs where the majority of Green Party candidates get votes will revolt if they feel forgotten like every other revolt by the forgotten worldwide in the last number of years

This road carries 14,000 vehicles per day (+/-). The upper limit for a Type 1 single is 11,600 vehicles per day. It makes absolutely no sense to build a single carriageway here given the volumes. It would be over capacity from day 1 if it was SC. 2+2 makes sense here

medoc · 15-11-2021 9:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139691#Comment_118139691

There is no need for any junction here except to connect the L2003 to the old N52 which will presumably be a continuation of the R421 to Kilbeggan. A simple overbridge would do the job. That would allow the WS2 bit of the N52 to be retrofitted 2+2. Any traffic for the Arden area of town would just use the roundabout where shell of the private hospital is.

In the old days this would have been built as 2+2 and the traffic levels still justify more than a single but who knows now. For the foreseeable future transport in most of Ireland will be car and truck based. Soon this will be electric or some other means other than internal combustion. Either way we need certain new roads and upgrades outside the cities done. But we shouldn’t be encouraging or facilitating more car based commuting into the cities.

spacetweek · 08-01-2022 9:49pm

This wasn't mentioned in the 2022 Allocations announcement.

[Deleted User] · 27-01-2022 11:53pm

https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/local-news/728638/doubts-raised-over-major-new-link-road-in-offaly.html

Gallowglas · 07-02-2022 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543191#Comment_118543191

Just the usual gutter press giving NIMBYs their 15 minutes of ... Ahem... "Fame".

[Deleted User] · 19-05-2022 12:13am

Possibly stalled/dead through no funding allocation

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2022/05/15/tullamore-to-kilbeggan-road-plan-effectively-dead-in-the-water/

marno21 · 31-01-2023 4:12am

https://www.offalyindependent.ie/2023/01/30/new-route-plan-for-tullamore-to-kilbeggan-road-due-by-april/

Interesting.

medoc · 13-03-2023 8:18pm

Back in the deep freeze again.

https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/tullamore-tribune/1059933/disappointment-as-tullamore-to-kilbeggan-link-road-falls-off-priority-list.html

veryangryman · 14-03-2023 12:24pm

Such absolute ball-locks. Everything ridiculously expensive and we cant upgrade a small section of a major route in any sort of decent time

cartoncowboy · 14-03-2023 12:55pm

This is the kind of messing that drives me nuts. A lot peoples time and effort went into the planning of this, not to mention all the money spent thus far. Then to be told that its on ice for the fore seeable future. It must be very demoralizing for the people who have worked on it.

As mentioned in the piece too, that the land owners affected are in a holding pattern indefinitely which is certainly not fair. The least TII and gov can do is to buy the landed needed now, even if the build will happen later. At least then they have some certainty and get on with things. This wastage of time, energy and resources is replicated all over the country. When a scheme is deemed required, it should be built without delay. The fact that the minister of the day can scupper as he sees fit is infuriating.

Perhaps the way in the future is when a minister comes into office a review of schemes in planning is carried out and a commitment given to the complete whatever is in flight. And a decision made on others that are in very early stages. At least people will know where they stand and hopefully prevent a lot of this wastage, which seems acceptable to those in power.

Rant over :-)

spacetweek · 15-03-2023 11:01pm

"...the Minister said it will be 10 to 15 years before that road is done"

Eamon Ryan said that. After he leaves office the new Minister might have a different view.

N52 - Tullamore to Kilbeggan (M6) [route options published]

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