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Dublin Metrolink - possible delay?

Beta Ray Bill

MOD NOTE: It seems that this article was wrong and the NTA have confirmed that the project is not delayed by 10 years or cancelled and will go forward as planned. As devnull points out:

The NTA have issued the following clarification in relation to Metrolink

NTA has not proposed any change in the timeline for Metrolink. The pathway for delivery for Metrolink is the same today as it was before the GDA strategy was published this week. Metrolink is still scheduled to go to planning next year (2022) and is still scheduled to be constructed as soon as possible after that.

----------------------------- Original Post follows ----------------------

Read this today

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/nta-strategy-sets-out-measures-to-cut-emissions-but-postpones-metrolink-1210733.html

Absolute joke.

2037 target completion date. We need this now, like RIGHT now.

Dublin Airport having no rail link is the biggest joke of all.

The gas thing is, there are rail lines just 5km away to the east of Dublin Airport, and at the moment it's all fields (Although is being developed rapidly). It's an absolute no brainer.

I just cannot understand how we get so much wrong in terms of Infra in this country. Even the simple stuff we cannot get right.

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Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151722#Comment_118151722

In real, practical terms it has been delayed or postponed or cancelled many, many times since it’s first iteration in the Dublin Rail Rapid Transit Study of 1975.

I've updated the thread title and the first post, given that the project is not delayed by 10 years or cancelled.

I'd also point out that the project is discussed in much greater detail over on the Infrastructure forum.

Podge_irl

It is not delayed 20 years, I have no idea where you are getting that figure from. It is delayed from the original deadline by about 4-5. It is already 2 years late going in for planning permission, that is nothing to do with withholding of financial resources.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151643#Comment_118151643

"There is simply no financial reason not to construct the metro."

I 100% fully agree with you, I think in terms of business generated, traffic alleviation, costs, etc it's an absolute no brainer. Light Rail works, it's so unbelievably proven at this stage, that one would wonder why they even make double decker buses anymore.

I just don't accept that we have or are set to have nearly above 20 years of logistical delays on this project. Something else is wrong and as far as I can see it boils down to money (everything always does), and the governments unwillingness to borrow even at 0% interest.

Podge_irl

The delays are not financial, they are logistical.

The money is not free, the credit is free. There is simply no financial reason not to construct the metro.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151502#Comment_118151502

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm not here that long, only 38 years.

And one thing I have learned is: there is no such thing as free

If this indeed was free, why has it been pushed back again?

I get the ECB are basically printing money now and lending it out at 0%. The issue here is the more they print, less value the money you and I currently have has. And that's the hidden cost.

Simple example: A top end motorcycle new in 2017 "started" @ €17,500. The same top end bike in 2021 starts @ €19,200. Nearly 10% increase in price in 5 years. Sure new average price of a new car in Ireland now is €33,200.

Something changed in the market in 2013, and the price of everything went up. (The cost of free)

Podge_irl

That works out at €53,333 for each person in the country.

And where it up to each person to individually pay it back this might be relevant.

Credit is basically free at the moment and the Metro will have a massive positive impact. The costs of it are basically irrelevant.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151107#Comment_118151107

The National Debt is €240,000,000,000. It jumped from €47B in 2007 to €210B in 2012. It dropped back to €220B in 2004 and is now €240B (and rising) in 2021. It should be noted that from 1995 to 2007 the National debt never went above €50B.

Note: I get inflation changes the values of money over time, but no where near the extent I've mentioned above.

That works out at €53,333 for each person in the country.

I fully agree with you that tax is up, and in many cases, many people who are PAYE workers are very well off.

It all looks good on paper.... but when you're someone like me who's constantly "watching", you can see that there is a major problem somewhere.

My Personal Opinion is that it's SMEs paying SFA corp tax. (I don't blame them, the loop holes are there to be used)

But when articles like this appear in the news: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/top-10-companies-now-pay-more-than-half-of-corporate-tax-1.4553695

You KNOW there is a problem.

The GDP is being artificially inflated "somehow" to accommodate the high debt ceiling, €86,337 per captia... how can that be?

Wages haven't really gone up since 2008, yet the GDP has nearly doubled?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118150379#Comment_118150379

This is incredibly wrong on many levels. The country is nowhere close to broke, is taking in more tax than expected and has access to basically free credit.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141693#Comment_118141693

There is a very big difference between what they are saying/spin vs what we all know will actually happen because this isn't our first Rodeo and we're not thick.

Doesn't matter if it gets planning permission next year, It's the release of funding to start construction that matters. And WE ALL know that's not gonna happen any time soon. It's no secret, the country is effectively broke.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148618#Comment_118148618

Just to correct your last point, Dublin Express have been operating between Heuston and Dublin Airport since August.

www.dublinexpress.ie

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118146695#Comment_118146695

5 decades actually; a rail tunnel for the city was assessed and proposed in the early 1970's by the McKinsey report to ease traffic congestion. The formal plans for DART Underground were drawn up and it's planning permission were granted; the funding for the project was supposedly even ring fenced in 2007 only to vanish! All that's needed now is for one or other of the Cabinet to go get the funds and make it happen, except it won't happen in my lifetime at any rate.

I an 45.

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141125#Comment_118141125

The 90 bus linked Heuston to Connolly, Busaras and the airport buses. But yeah there wasn't a direct bus. Still isn't actually since a few weeks ago 🙄

Strumms

Needed now, needed years ago...politicians failing the citizens yet again...

population is skyrocketing, roads and public transport are clogged already at non peak times...

When it arrives it won’t be fit for purpose...

my mother was still working when the project was green lighted... it’s extremely unlikely she’ll live to see it. It’s extremely remote.

So fûcking Irish.

Yet we commit to and announced that we will continue to invite people over from Afghanistan..

Programme will provide up to 500 additional places for Afghan family members.
More than 670 Afghan nationals have already been granted permissions to reside in the State so far this year.

Yet we can’t look after our own citizens needs... provide them with safe , efficient, modern and improved public transport... right...

Beechwoodspark

Not bollocks. Reality.

Beechwoodspark

with the current climate emergency dublin airport should be wound down in terms of flights until Carbon neutral travel is possible.

devnull

The NTA have issued the following clarification in relation to Metrolink

Podge_irl

Might be worth changing the thread title seeing as its completely wrong?

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145220#Comment_118145220

The government are public sector actually. The private sector are the businesses, companies and industries being taxed. Households are made up of mostly private sector workers with a select few government employees. I was just highlighting how the attitude displayed in the article mentioned shows how much high ranking public sector officials take the private sector (their ultimate employers) for granted and quite frankly how ungrateful they are for the private sector to fund their gravy train life style.

In this context, they've done nothing but talk about Metro and DART underground for 2 decades without a single bore tunnel being drilled. Now, we will be likely waiting another 2 decades to see any delivery whatsoever. If they can't dilver a proper speedy incentive to the car, then don't lecture motorists about climate change. They are so out of touch with the people they are supposed to be serving.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144897#Comment_118144897

The State is private sector and households. There's no other income source apart from these so if the State "pays" for infrastructure it's the private sector and households who fund it through taxes.

patrickbrophy18

Disgraceful and cringe worthy in equal measure. This comes only days after the following display of sanctimony:

https://www.facebook.com/45441411157/posts/10158612903876158/

Seriously, they expect the private sector and households to bare the brunt of the climate plan costs and have the nerve to pull a stunt like this.

Provide proper incentives for the country to curb its emissions. For transport, DART Underground and Metro Link were key components for this. In my opinion, by reneging on both, they have foreited any future credibility when lecturing us about climate change. Deliver and then we'll talk.

Lets not forget that Metro Link is a rehashed version of Metro North while DART Underground is a rework of The Interconnector. Both of these were mooted in 2005 as part of the "Transport 21" initiative and were cancelled because of the 2008 recession. Before this, there was "A Platform For Change" back in 2001, 2 decades ago. I cannot believe that we are still only talking about it. It sounds very much like the boy who cried wolf.

Actions speak louder than words and proposals for metros and underground DART systems are but words. 2 decades later and we only have 2 Luas systems, a port tunnel and a bus network which is slightly better.

I have long suspected that the more important parts of these transport proposals are just election baiting. If this were a private company, it would've been shut down long ago.

[Deleted User]

If I remember correctly, not long ago there was big fanfare over this with lots of photoshoots and the works. Then Paschal and NA Fianna objected

Covid aside we should be borrowing big to fund such a critical piece of infrastructure. It will pay itself back in time.

Braindead and shortsighted. The asylum is ran by donkeys.

MyLove4Satan

it's gone, over, done and dusted = banana republic

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141285#Comment_118141285

Again, no it was not announced today that it would be 2037 at the earliest. The tweet I posted is from Head of Public Affairs for the NTA. He has said that it will go to construction well before 2031. It won't open until post 2031, but that is a long way from 2037 at the earliest. I suggest actually listening to the people involved in the project rather than believing everything you read in the media.

And the planning for this began in 2015. The 2007 plan was scrapped after the recession hit.

Larbre34

So, so dumb. So shortsighted, so backward.

The only way to get even and sustainable growth is to offer segregation and speed. You have to intercept in-bound road vehicles on the outskirts and carry the drivers speedily, cheaply and comfortably to their City Centre destinations, leaving the surface streets for local journeys, bus routes, cycling and improved public realm.

They should be accelerating DART underground, Metro and the Luas objectives ahead of anything else, not putting them on the back burner.

What sort of a shyt show is Eamon Ryan running at all?

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141125#Comment_118141125

Valid point, then line is already heavily congested. (I know I live on it)

Again, the boat was missed back in the 90's to add additional rail lines adjacent to it into the city, in particular to fixing the bottle neck around Connolly Station and the loop line bridge.

Fail to Plan, Plan to Fail

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141147#Comment_118141147

The planning process for this began back as far as 2007, It's 14 years later and nothing (of any REAL significance) has been done.

As of 2018 it was supposed to be ready by 2027, and today it was announced that it will be 2037 "at the earliest" that it will be ready.

30 Years to build a tram system.... doesn't add up. There is no where else in the world where these kind of problems exist.

Obviously I want it built, but part of me thinks "Do we want to throw anymore money at this given nothing is actually happening?"

Cookiemunster

It's neither postponed for a decade or canned. The NTA have confirmed that it will go for planning next year and construction after that but won't be open before 2031.

https://twitter.com/dermotog/status/1458043537904316422?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1458043537904316422%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.skyscrapercity.com%2Fthreads%2Frevised-dublin-transport-plan.2327086%2F

Tippman24

The problem with the railway line mentioned is that it currently functions as an inter-city, outer-suburban and Dart line also. You could argue that the proposed electrification to Drogheda will be of assistance to it in the future if that line is used.

Up to the 90s there was no bus route linking Houston to the Airport. So a person was left with a walk of a half mile from Batchelors Walk to Amiens Street to get a bus to the Airport. When Dublin Bus started the 747 Route the Taxi Drivers attempted to blockade the Airport. So be thankful there is anything there at all.