Sexual assault at high school in the State of Virginia.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129958#Comment_118129958

Of course it doesn't.

Of course.

Boys always wear dresses. It's totally normal

I saw it in a twix ad.

Doesn't matter at all. In fact, I'd guess he was a cis white male.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129952#Comment_118129952

No nor you and neither do the tiny minority who are attacking woman and girls who don't want men or teenage boys in their changing areas or toilets .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129974#Comment_118129974

I have no idea what cis white make means. But this is a rapist who attacked a girl in a bathroom, he then went on to attack another girl, in a different school, in a different room. And those are the ones we know about. Can't see it has anything to do with trans anything or wearing dresses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129969#Comment_118129969

He was there to rape someone with his penis.

In a place where people with penises shouldn't be.

I don't think people with penises (men) should be in women's bathrooms at all.

I know this is a mad idea, but let's not tolerate or allow people who have a penis into women's toilets.

Granted, a rapist will likely ignore the restriction, but let's at least not give them permission to be there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129986#Comment_118129986

You do know what cis white male means.

Should a boy wearing a dress be permitted to use a girls toilet? Should he be questioned as to whether he is trans or not?

Or should toilets be only used by the designated sex (not gender)?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129986#Comment_118129986

I think some posters think if she arranged to meet him in a janitors closet he magically would have acted like the perfect gentleman.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129996#Comment_118129996

I haven't a clue, why would I?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129998#Comment_118129998

If that is genuinely what you think, then you perhaps should rethink your opinion.

Most posters here think that boys in dresses shouldn't be allowed into girls toilets. Do you think they should?

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129958#Comment_118129958

"As pointed out early in the thread, there is nothing stopping anyone walking into any room they wish."

That's not how safeguarding works. The female sign on the door of a bathroom isn't some magical rune that will keep out anyone with ill-intent. But the existence of male and female toilets sets up a norm which, when breached, draws attention. If you see someone who is obviously male going into a women's toilet, you might go and check what's happening, or alert someone in the building the toilet is in, or even just wait outside to check that everything is okay. And in doing any of those things you might save a woman or a child from one of the numerous attacks I mentioned up-thread, which were all related to a contravention of the general "female-only space" norms.

It works in the same way that looking out for other women on a night out works. If you see a lone woman who looks half conscious and locked off her box being pawed by a man, you find security. Or if you see a woman alone with a man looking very uncomfortable, you (in my circles, anyway) go and say hello like you're an old friend to give her a chance to get out of dodge with you.

There are myriad things we do in society, because male violence is a threat, to keep women safe. And "woke" people seem to be right on board with them up until the moment that the male person taking offense says they feel like a woman in their soul or whatever. It's nonsensical.

"There are posters here that are suggesting he was in a female bathroom because he was trans"

It doesn't matter if the predatory male identifies as trans, though, when the argument about bathrooms comes up. The very point that people opposed to gender-neutral bathrooms or bathrooms that allow trans-identifying males into women's spaces are making, is that it is impossible to differentiate between a trans-identifying male and a male who is pretending to be trans in order to access women's spaces and thereby get close to potential victims. And in any case, there is no evidence that males "identifying" as a women or a non-binary persons or a trees have a significantly different offending pattern to their birth-sex identifying counterparts.

And as I've said before, I get that this puts trans people in a **** situation. Many trans people appear to have strong mental discomfort when reminded that their birth sex is not what they would like it to be, and mental health provision for those people is sorely lacking. But I cannot in good conscience say that the best solution is to put women and children at more risk of male violence than they already are. And I don't honestly think many trans people believe that, either (trans activists being a very different thing).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130136#Comment_118130136

Just plus one for all this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130136#Comment_118130136

I don't see female bathrooms as being a 'safe space ' for women. They are somewhere to go for a pee. There are shared toilets where I work, with approx 98% men.

If anyone of those men decided to attack me, they can do it absolutely anywhere.

If you're gonna go down the route that all men are dangerous, then may be we should live in a totally segregated society?

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130172#Comment_118130172

I don't think that "all men are dangerous". That cannot be anything but a deliberate mis-reading of my post. Men are far more likely to commit violent and sexual crime than women, and women are often the victims of those violent and sexual crimes. Perhaps you disagree with this. If so, present evidence to the contrary.

You may also wish to respond to the post I made earlier, where I provided thirteen examples of something happening that you had confidently stated never happens and never will happen.

You may not see women's bathrooms (or any other female-only space, for that matter) as being a "safe space" for women, and that is entirely your prerogative. But many women do, and their safety concerns—grounded in actual instances of their fears coming true for other women and children—should not be sacrificed on the altar of someone's potential hurt feelings.

To quote you from earlier in the thread: You do not speak for all women.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130070#Comment_118130070

It's interesting the stance of posters who are usually quite pro-feminist in their attitudes but that takes a second place to the Trans "rights". Like, they'd be the first to talk about male predators and the need to protect women (with their safe spaces) when it suits a particular narrative, but when the crusade shifts focus...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130136#Comment_118130136

Of course this is all nonsense as was Your earlier post.

You state that if people saw a man going jnto a woman's toilet and reported it Might save some of the women and children in the cases you mentioned above. This is completely false.

I read through all the cases pertaining to bathrooms. Not one of them supports your point.

Case 1: man hid a camera in gender neutral toilets. That was not a man entering a womans toilet. Nobody would have called and reported him due to seeing a man entering a women's toilet because that didn't happen. They would have seen a man entering a toilet for both men and women.

Case 2: Woman assaulted in gender neutral toilets in a nightclub in Bristol. Again was not a man entering a women's toilet.

Case 3: trans woman assaults 10 year.old.girl in UK supermarket toilets. Even if you are transphobic and consider the offender to be male, they appear from their pic to present quite feminine. If you want people to take "safeguarding measures" against people they suspect are trans then you're going to get a lot of embarrassing incidents for cis women who present masculine, butch lesbians etc. And if you are restricting it to cis men who present as men and enter women's bathrooms well this isn't a case of that. So again your supposed safeguarding measures amount to zero extra safety in this case.

Case 4: trans woman assaults girl in bathroom in US: did you even read this one? It was a home bathroom not a public bathroom. Are you going to start reporting trans people or.men using their own home toilets 🙄

Case 5: man grabbed Walmart employee In women's bathroom. The only one that's even slightly relevant to this thread as it's a cis man in a womans bathroom. And like this case it has nothing to do with trans people using women's bathrooms.

So out of the 5 cases you gave about bathrooms:

2 were cis men in gender neutral bathrooms

1 is a trans woman in a woman's bathroom.

1 is a trans woman in a house bathroom.

1 is a cis man in a woman's bathroom.

Only one of them is even vaguely similar to this case and could be prevented by people intervening if they see a man enter a women's bathroom.

So no there would not be a wonderful increase in safety in these cases as you claim.

And by the way your use of "trabs-identified male" is gross.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130188#Comment_118130188

Well most feminists don't think women need to be protected from made up predators. Just the real ones.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130190#Comment_118130190

And by the way your use of "trabs-identified male" is gross

LLMMLL, I assume that you're aware that your use of CIS male/men is offensive to many people. I'd imagine that doesn't bother you that much..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130191#Comment_118130191

haha.. I'm not going to get into an argument over what "most feminists" think, and whether it's about real or imaginary threats.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130188#Comment_118130188

It's equally interesting that posters who are very much 'not all men' when the conversation is about whichever recent event where a woman was attacked in a 'conventional sense' but reading this thread it appears many are of the opinion that even though a female might be attacked in a very rare and specific way, every step should be taken to ensure that does not happen in this specific way.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130195#Comment_118130195

We can do this is-cis-offensive merry go round again if you like. I've done it many times on this thread. But it will probably get the thread closed.

People aren't really offended by cis. They are trying to score points against the people who use the term.

In fact there problem is not with the term itself. If you ask them for an alternative they will not suggest one.

Their issue is ANY word that means "individuals with XX chromosomes who identify as women".

For "trans identified male" there is a perfectly good term already in use and the vast majority of anti-trabs people are happy to use it: trans women.

But the more extreme elements of the anti-trans community won't allow even this so use trans identified male. It is truly disgusting and clearly meant to hurt trans people.

So no using the word cis is nothing like using the phrase trans identified male.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130198#Comment_118130198

That's nice

I had no idea what cis male or female meant - quick google and like WTF????

I'm a man with man bits but now I have a different gender name as opposed to just being called a man - the world is fecked

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130217#Comment_118130217

Not at all. You're still a man and still a male. People only use the word cis when discussing trans issues.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130221#Comment_118130221

But that is still labelling someone as something they don't want to be labelled as. Hmmm....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130223#Comment_118130223

So they should provide an alternative word to use in discussion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130199#Comment_118130199

There's basically two types of anti-trans posters. The ones who call themselves gender critical (usually older women but some younger women and men) see it as a women's rights issue. Quite a lot of them are truly anti-men. Hang out on the mumsnet forum to see some truly shocking threads about how they feel about men in general.

The other posters (basically all the men on this thread) are coming from an anti-woke perspective. They will argue until theyre blue in the face that trans women are a danger to cis women but then whenever there's a thread on the dangers posed by cis men to cis women they will have an absolute meltdown.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130224#Comment_118130224

Why would they need an alternative word - man or a woman suffices. If you want to label people outside those norms then give them names like trans, binary etc

A man or woman who in the absolute essence of the meaning of the word is just that doesn't need another description of who they are because some people want to describe them as some kind of abnormality of what being male or female means to fit their agenda of sexuality is not one of the other

Being gay doesn't mean you are not a man and think of yourself as a man, ditto for a lesbian and so on

Don't label me with some pejorative term

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130237#Comment_118130237

What pejorative term?

Actually man in place of cis man does not work.

For instance to say something like "cis men should A while trans men should B” I would have to instead say “men should A but trans men should B”

this implies that I don’t think trans men are men. This does not reflect my beliefs and forces me to make statements that actively go against my beliefs.

if cis people in general do not want people to use the word cis (which isn’t even the case, it’s just a few anti trans posters trying to create drama) then they need to meet us halfway and propose an alternative they can live with that doesn’t force us into making statements that violate our beliefs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130199#Comment_118130199

While I am very much of the opinion that it is "not all men", I'm absolutely of the opinion that "not any man" should have access to women only spaces.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130241#Comment_118130241

Oh my.

You want people to "meet you halfway" so you don't make a statement that betrays your belief that "man" can also mean a biological woman?

Has it really come to this?

Laughable.