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How much should a tradesman charge a day?

Ray Palmer

I have been engaging with tradesmen a lot lately and they seem to really charge what they like. I get demand and supply is in play but they really are a law unto themselves.

On a simple level if you ask for a quote they give you just a figure not a quote with time, labour, materials and description. This is a legal requirement but good luck getting any to do that and by asking they will normally decide not to do the job as you are seen as awkward.

I recently asked for a quote for some ground works which was using a con saw and putting in basic drainage pipe. On level of trade skill we are talking minimum so not like a plumber or an electrician. After asking some questions to get to the labour costs it was €350 a day and says it will take 2 days with 2 people (€1400). Now I reckon it will actually only take a days work but they would have to come on 2 separate days due to cure time but also not 2 people for both visits. So to me it seems I would be paying over the odds per day but also overcharged on time. There is also and extra €600 for materials and waste disposal. Hiring a consaw for the weekend is €75 and material would be max €250 waste can be expensive but again seems like overcharging.

Am I way off on how much tradesmen should charge and what seems reasonable?

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SupplyandDemandZone

You'd be doing very well to find a good tradesman for 200 quid a day. Sparks are getting a bare minimum of 280-350 at the moment for one of our companies Dublin based projects and plumbers aren't that far behind that price range. I know of one company paying their lads 400 euro for a days work installing air conditioning systems on a Sandyford based site as they under a very pressurised deadline target.

JustJoe7240

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117829#Comment_118117829

But the job isn't priced based on a person being priced at x/hour. You seem to have an issue understanding this concept.

As for the elderly question, Would i have an issue "overcharging" an eldery relative. If the person was quoted something then charged extra(if unnecessary) , that's overchanging. Yes I'd have an issue with that Is that what you're asking?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117826#Comment_118117826

Name a point I haven't responded to. Other opinions are not valid by being other and I responded and agreed with points. If somebody makes the same tired opinion that I have already responded to I am still responding and asking for them to justify that opinion and see if they feel differently when considering the same principle applied elsewhere. Have you got a point because mine is to find out why people are ok with it?

Why did you exaggerate that I made multiple threads on the same subject? I made 2 with one including shops and other rip off people and another about what people think is a fair days labour charge. So if you are enjoying it good but don't also say you don't like it. Decide engage or move on

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117593#Comment_118117593

What sort of a point are you making??

You get paid a wage yes??

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117794#Comment_118117794

What is loaded about it? If somebody says the need 2 people to spend 2 days and they only need one person for 2 days how would I not understand that is overcharging. Are you saying you would be happy if somebody did that to an elderly relative? Is that that a loaded question because it makes somebody think of the person being ripped off?

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117765#Comment_118117765

Oh I find it this fascinating to follow, because you started a discussion without being willing to take any other opinion on board. What’s the point?

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117684#Comment_118117684

No offense Ray but I reckon you are the problem.

If I want a job done I ask how much, I don't care what the materials cost or if it gets done in less time I can dock x amount.

I charge accordingly or refuse to take a job if I get a sniff of a know it all!

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117747#Comment_118117747

I'm not convinced you are posting in good faith but regardless, it is funny that you can't understand some basic concepts.

Here is something that will amaze you. If I landed to your house and said that I wanted €10000 to do a job, and that the €10000 was to cover my time working and also 5 lapdancers to bring me lemonade while I work, well, I still wouldn't be overcharging you.

Its not overcharging, it is not undercharging, it is purely and simply the price I want for the job, which you are free to accept or reject as you please.

Children in the schoolyard selling candy to each other understand relative value better than you do.

JustJoe7240

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117747#Comment_118117747

That's a loaded question isn't it? You have no idea what overcharging is? You have an opinion of what a fair price is, but it's just that. An opinion

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117745#Comment_118117745

Here is the solution to your issue, don't read it and go somewhere else.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117704#Comment_118117704

I don't doubt it but both aren't true at the same time

3DataModem

To attempt to answer the question. 350 is perfectly fine for a contractor to do a small job.

If he worked a full 260 days a year (no leave, no nothing) that's 90k a year gross, and that assumes full occupancy, which is impossible when doing small jobs and / or quoting for jobs.

People are more demanding of quality work on their homes, which is driving up prices for quality tradespeople who are willing to take on domestic jobs.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117702#Comment_118117702

And you can't even respond to the questions put to you or explain why tradesmen are somehow special when it comes to the law or why other industries don't do what they do. Your very old "anecdote" is just silly. We are talking about basic manual work. You would have no issue with a tradesman over charged and elderly relative?

Jequ0n

@Ray Palmer Seriously, get some help. Your multiple threads on the evil of tradespeople are bordering on obsession. I’m not even working in trades but even I find it exhausting to read you pontificate about ethics and your inflated ego.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118114406#Comment_118114406

"A giant engine in a factory failed. The factory owners had spoken to several ‘experts’ but none of them could show the owners how they could solve the problem.

Eventually the owners brought in an old man who had been fixing engines for many years. After inspecting the huge engine for a minute or two, the old man pulled a hammer out of his tool bag and gently tapped on the engine.

Immediately the engine sprung back into life.

A week later the owners of the business received an invoice from the old man for £10,000. Flabbergasted, they wrote to the old man asking him to send through an itemised bill. The man replied with a bill that said:

Tapping with a hammer: £2.00

Knowing where to tap: £9,998.00"

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117599#Comment_118117599

Believe what you choose, I've worked in trades and overinflating the price for jobs you don't want/need is common.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117684#Comment_118117684

You have no idea what you are talking about. Good luck with that.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117638#Comment_118117638

Here is where you are wrong. They have to provide a quote before hand and if they don't provide what they quoted then they just broke a contract. I don't actually have to pay them the quoted price. So I could hire this guy and if 2 people weren't there for the full days I can reduce what I pay them by the law. They are required by law to provide a quote.

If you are fine with pure capitalistic greed then you are happy with other industries doing the same? If not you hold a hypocritical view. Don't like the rent increase then move would be OK with you? There are laws not enforced on tradesmen

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117542#Comment_118117542

they are saying it is 4 man days when it is not and overcharging on materials by over 100%. That is simply overcharging I don't have to accept there quote but it doesn't change it is excessive. If I quoted a job and said it was 6 hours work and my rate is €100 per hour and I know it will take just 1 hour I am over quoting if I actually did it in an hour and charged the 6 hours I would be over charging. It is that simple and not really worthy of defending but it surprises me how many people want to. There is no way they would accept this from other industries

bucketybuck

I've only skimmed the thread, because who wants to read a load of rubbish from people who don't understand capitalism. Suffice to say that the idea of "overcharging" is hilarious, because unless you are talking about an alternator then it is a meaningless word.

Here is my price. Don't like it then don't buy it, but save me the whinging either way. If I can get my price ten times over from other customers then why would I give a **** that some random guy thinks he is special and that it should be cheaper for him?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117482#Comment_118117482

Great logic there. He doesn't want the job so he priced it so I wouldn't take him up but he then contacts me to ask if he can start. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth there. It makes much more sense that he wants to overcharge period no 3d chess moves here.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117361#Comment_118117361

I’m not in the trades (I was) and I have

car insurance, car Maintainence, car tax, car Ntc diesel, office clothes , office equipment, mobile phone, banking charges, paye, prsi, usc.

to name but a few overheads.

why do tradesmen get away with creaming it?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117505#Comment_118117505

I understand supply and demand. What do want a response to that I haven't said? Other industries are controlled if you think it acceptable to gouge prices with tradesmen then do you have no issue with others? I mean I can't put up the rent to the market rates so will you defend my desire to put up the rent or do you hold a hypocritical view?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117494#Comment_118117494

Ridiculous comments. €1200 minus tax write off is approx €600 over 5 years so €125 a year. I never said these things don't cost money just that they are a lot less than you are suggesting. You seem to think I don't know how business works when it seems you don't. If we take the over charging I was quoted that would easily pay for all office expenses for 2 years and I am just one customer. Do you think they only have one customer a year? I have estimated and worked out project for way more money than these jobs and part of it is understanding overheads and taxes. What do you really think the overheads are yearly for a tradesman?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112465#Comment_118112465

Isn't that how many of the local authorities work? Except there might be two or more fellas watching on, propping up shovels. When they're not on a tea break.

But as regards OP, these tradesmen are not over charging as such. They're just giving a price, you either accept it or try someone else or DIY.

redsheeps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116740#Comment_118116740

I made an effort to understand what your getting at and you have no real response to it. You're repeating the same thing and for all your talk about how knowledgeable your are about business you don't seem to understand the basics of supply and demand. Are you sure you're not a carpenter bud, cause you're fierce chippy. Best of luck with your crusade.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117420#Comment_118117420

What's funny about ongoing training???

I have to pay 1200 euro for one refresher course this year.

There is 5 yearly training certs I have to get annually to enable me to be covered on sites to do jobs.

These all cost money. You go on about tax deductible. They still have to be paid with money that has to be earned.

Yes a laptop, printer, paper, invoice books, company stickers, stationary etc etc.

All costs money.

Glad you think it's all a joke.

You seem to think you are above tradesmen.

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117448#Comment_118117448

Nah, he doesnt want it really - but he will do it happily if you overpay

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117411#Comment_118117411

Funny that considering he rang me today asking if I still wanted him. He thinks I am willing to pay the price and wants to do it at an over inflated price. Simply you are wrong and using a standard response people use that they price the job not to get it as opposed to what is actually them wanting to overcharge. There is nothing hypothetical

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117361#Comment_118117361

LOL. You really added a lot there. Ongoing training really made me laugh. I understand overheads and tax deductions a lot better thanyou with that list. They are mostly tax deductible and if a tradesman is paying corporation tax they should ditch their accountant as most are sole traders. You don't charge customers all your overheads on each job which is really what you are suggesting here. How many tradesmen really have full office equipment and how often do you think they replace it all? It is a laptop in the kitchen and a printer which most home have anyway even my 80 year old mother has this stuff and no need to replace it often maybe every 6 years but allowable on tax every 2.

You really over egged your cake there