How reliable is overseeding red clover into a silage sward likely to be ,and any idea on what the best time of the year would be to do it ... ?
And does it need to be, or is it even available innoculated ?
I'm not sure what you mean by innoculated, I've only broadcasted organic seed, but the best time to broadcast clover on silage ground is right after cutting to ensure seed to earth contact. A chain harrow before broadcasting will help things too.
Edit: just to add it was a mix of red and white clover that I broadcasted. With red clover I've heard a full reseed might suit it better. I was more interested in adding to the sward rather than starting from scratch with it.
It's the bacteria in root nodules in clover that do the nitrogen fixing - but I'm not sure is it the same bacteria in red clover and white - and If you haven't had any say white clover in a field ( maybe in continuous tillage for years and years ) then you'll get far better clover results in that field by innoculating
The clover won't work to fix nitrogen if the nodules aren't working. The ground and minerals have to be right, there is a test one can do to show it's fixing nitrogen. If you carefully dig up clover and take the soil off the roots, you can see the little nodules on the roots. It's possible to open them and if the are a pale pinkish colour, that indicates nitrogen fixing is happening.
Any info on the new scheme.rate terms
Still nothing as yet I think
Here is a fact sheet https://www.fruithillfarm.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Red-Clover-leaflet-update.pdf
If you over seed you ideally graze tight first, tine harrow, spread seed and roll in
Going to try over 2kg an acre in to an existing perineal ryegrass sward
you would really need to burn off with glyphosate first or at least take a heavy cut of silage so the ground is white,if your over sowing id be more inclined to put in 3 or 4kg....white clover could be a better option if its grazing ground where red is more of a cutting crop
It kinda defeats the purpose of "adding" to a sward by killing everything off with glysophate first! For a full reseed from scratch, sure but not for broadcasting. You'd end up killing any clover that might be in the sward already.
I’m using the red clover at that rate to improve the quality of silage that will be cut in the field. I don’t want to use spray etc. I will graze it down tight.
I see a lot of benefit in red clover in terms of protein and magnesium etc and will feed it to suckler cows.
the problem is keeping the existing grass in check to allow the clover get established,tight grazing won't do it as i have found,best bet is take a heavy cut of silage,harrow then broadcast and roll it hard,needs plenty moisture
It depends on weather conditions ,and how much nitrogen is available in the ground ,
For white clover ,Light grazing or topping while the new plants are getting established usually is enough , ( I don't know about red clover ,grazing isn't ideal for it ,but that could be the hooves on established plants ) , once a good cover of white is established a small amount of nitrogen in autumn / spring will get grass growth while the clover is a bit slow - but you wouldn't want heavy covers of grass to smother the clover ...
Red clover increasing protein is a myth, it’s also difficult to ensile in wet weather as it needs a good wilt but if you use molasses’s as an additive it will help. It’s good for average quality bulky silage.
€50 off a bag of red clover seed if I read it correctly.
Correct but also a silage mix with red clover
Thanks for the detail. I am going to give it a go anyway.
I like the nitrogen fixing, mineral aspect and quality.
They did a trail in Solohead last year 15 tonne DM/H last year with 3 cuts of silage and zero grazing. 3k gallons of slurry for every cut with 2 bags of 0 7 30 a hectare and no chemical nitrogen. The article is on agriland if you want to check it out.
Thanks. Will take a look
Farm I used to work on was careful mowing and raking it , didn't use a conditioner on mower , wouldn't Ted it - just rake it into rows , and when baling didn't use knives - , reckoned that the leaves were prone to shattering to dust ..
By all accounts avoiding compaction is a big issue as well.with that experience do you think it's a runner for silage ground in typical Irish conditions
Probably better off using the pipe system for slurry applications.
Have red clover undersown to barley and wondering weather to put a bag of sulpacan on it.
Sown 30 April,3 bags of 18 6 12 and 2000 gas of slurry at 50kg to acre.has got very little rain since sowin and has started to ear even though it's short.the colour is strong on it but not sure is there enough to take it home .harvest probably 1 St week August
One of the tillage lads prob best placed but moisture most likely the biggest issue. Has the red clover come any bit, would it be bringing any N to the equation?
Don’t waste your money KG.
What seeding rate for barley and clover?
50 kgs barley
6 kgs red
2kg white
4 kg grass seed
Thats per hectare surely?
Sorry Thats per acre and 50 kilos barley
Wow!
I’m presuming it’s for a future high protein/low nitrogen silage sward?
I’d use those rates on a per hectare basis and include the barley at 1-3kg/ha!!
Any chance you’d post a pic? It might be better take it out now to save the clover.
Out of interest was it a salesman that prescribed that mix?
3 reasons
Nitro prices and potential restrictions
Trying to get a bit of more home grown protein to improve milk at the shoulders
Couldn't be much worse than what was there
Didn't do much homework about clover/grassseed once it was dept approved and irish trialed and you had to have 4 kgs red clover seed in the mix.the barley would want to be as good as it is but crows and lack of moisture were the problem s there.
First to admit I'm flying blind as regards this red clover
Is there a grant or something for growing clover?
Post a couple of pics of the average including a fairly close up pic?
Was there a history of any clovers/legumes grown there?
Did you use a herbicide?
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