Certainly not. The hitman would have been more professional, for instance he would have found a way to get the car cleaned up, somewhere on the way from Sophie's to Knock airport.
An interesting read apart from the fact that in between one has to go to page 35 to continue reading..... I didn't know that Bailey had a law degree.
Think it's murder in the cottage, the reddit sister group to this 😉
If anyone wants it
https://www.reddit.com/r/MurderAtTheCottage/comments/qjmp51/irish_independent_gardai_investigating_discarded/
Apparently IB is now living in an emergency log cabin given by Cork Council
I've always thought that Carbonnets alibi was weak.. He signed a receipt? That's all he has to confirm he was in Paris at the time.. I hope that this was very thoroughly checked out.
Not exactly "watertight" is it?
Scooby, a couple of questions if you don't mind, or anyone else that might know.
Some are Rhetorical questions, others begging answers.
the answers may well be elsewhere in the thread but difficult to find with this new site.
Do you know what age John Hellen was at the time?
All I can see is he was a teenager, which could be anywhere between 12 and 20.
I think I read somewhere that Josie Hellen was French,
were she and Sophie friends before Sophie moved to west Cork?
Where did Sophie stay on her visits to the area before she bought her house?
Who did Sophie visit in Galway before deciding to buy in Dreenane?
Other things ;
After seeing the dead body Alfie and Shirley phoned around checking neighbours, who did they phone?
Did they phone Sophie's house? surely they must have suspected the body was Sophie's,
especially if they checked her house and got no response.
Why didn't Alfie identify the body, rather than Finbarr Hellen?
The first Josie Hellen supposedly knew of the murder was when she turned up at the scene to keep her noon appointment with Sophie.
her husband Finbarr just happened to arrive at the scene independently at the same time-
he was working nearby on his land.
The Guards said they "made contact" with the Hellens to identify the body, what does that mean.
I can't see how Finbarr Hellen would be in a better position than Alfie to identify Sophie.
The whole scenario in the aftermath of the body being found does not sit right.
Who knew what? when? where were they?
Apart from the Hellens and Bailey what other 'locals' turned up at the scene?
Why wasn't the lane closed off at the Kealfada road?
Lots to unpack here, I'll try and answer a few.
John hellen was 15 I believe. No josie hellen wasn't French. I believe when sophie bought the house finbarr was the first to meet her on account of owning so much of the surrounding land, and from there she asked if anyone could housekeep and finbarr suggested Josie. That's my understanding of how they met.
He was working the land that morning and went up and saw the garda car, and josie arrived for her appointment with Sophie at the same time. I suppose the Gards asked them because they knew Sophie since she bought the house.
I'll check with my source but I think they mentioned in Alfies statements that he didn't want to see the body, even when Shirley ran back screaming he didnt go down up close enough to see if it was sophie. It was only when he went up to her house to warn her he saw the blood smear and realised it might be her.
It is all quite strange, I agree.
I agree with all of what you have said above - youve raised excellent questions. Alfie and Shirley would have to be dense not to realise or suspect that the dead body was Sophie. I get that Shirley didnt hang around to look at the body but Im sure she seen the hair/clothing etc and would have realised the body was a woman. I think I read somewhere that Alfie did knock on Sophies door to check - there was no answer obviously and her car was still parked outside. Why Finbar Hellen had to identify the body is very strange - you would think the first choice for identifying the body would have been Alfie or Shirley. I dont buy that they were to shook up to ID the body given that Shirley was out and about going to the dump or grocery shopping ( whatever she was doing ) a few hours later - this to me is not how somebody behaves after discovering a dead body. You dont just carry on with your normal day after discovering someone dead! I dont believe either Alfie or Shirley murdered Sophie - but they know more than what they have said of the events of that night/morning. Their phone records should have been checked.
We know very little about Sophies relationship with the Hellens - did they have a personal friendship or was it just that Josie was her cleaner and Finbarr used her land for grazing.
Her and Josie were definitely friends by the time she was murdered. I'd go so far as to say josie was her closest confidante in Ireland.
She told josie all about her break up with Bruno, about her suspicions of Alfie breaking in to use her water, and they concocted a plan together to "trap him" but by that time sophie had the locks changed so he never seemed to break in again.
Was in O'Sullivans bar in Crookhaven on Wednesday of last week and Jennifer Forde from the West Cork podcast was in having a chat with Billy. I was tempted to ask but in typical Orish fashion I didn't pry. I wondered was this a social catchup or are they planning a follow up doc at some stage as I know she has only recently returned to work after having a baby. I'd like to see them take their investigative journalism further and go deeper on some of the open questions on this thread. I believe having someone impartial parties could help if the case is officially reopened.
Yes they are doing more I believe.
Thats interesting, I think it would be great if they did more, their podcast is by far the most detailed & properly researched material I've seen on the case so far. Sheridans was good too but focused too much on Bailey & the French for my liking & not on possible other scenarios. The netflix one then was a joke.
Jim is doing more too and quite possibly will cover other scenarios 😉
Like The Field kinda thing?
I mean the real field story about Moss Moore and Dan Foley.
I don't know but I truly hope he does get to the bottom of it!
From the recent Irish Indo article:
"Last week there was a claim on Twitter by a British journalist that the wine bottle was the initial source of conflict between Sophie and an assailant. The Sunday Independent understands the information stems from lurid allegations by a former prisoner about how the row began that led to her death. Gardaí are treating the claims with extreme caution, although it is understood a male informant has twice been interviewed and made formal statements. His reliability, however, is in question."
It can be taken as given that the allegation implicates Bailey, or Nick wouldn't be attaching his rat claws to it. But does anyone know who it is they are referring to?
No idea but all I can think of is wonder how much his sentence got reduced for that info!
Any speculation? I'm assuming he knew Bailey and the theory is Bailey told him this. Perhaps it's a cell mate of this man who is giving out the info? Maybe the guy the Gaurds gave cash and drugs to? Maybe the pedophile former partner of Jules Thomas?
We must have some ideas after 260 pages.
I have no idea. That was just my old and cynical response 😂
No worries.
Anybody else have any theories who this former prisoner is?
I can't believe it's something we haven't at least skimmed over before.
Or do we have to wait for Foster to enlighten us on November 4th?
I'll try and find out.
Nothing pisses me off more about this case than people thinking Foster holds the key to the unravelling.
Didn't mean you, obviously!
The wine bottle must have been found it seems. I wonder what else will show up now?
Indo rubbish was a rehash of other rubbish and probably a smattering of what is written here.
As for Foster, that rubbish would almost mean a third person was there to record the words and the scene.
Gardai are quite right to be extremely sceptical about this crap
I guess, unless new forensics can back up what was said.
Where's the old rubbish about the prisoner giving info about a fight over a bottle of wine?
The only known picture of him is taken from behind
Well, I suppose that's about as useful as any other info you have brought to the thread.
Prisoners giving evidence should never be given serious credit imo, its mad how much credence its given in the states, disgraceful actually. Many of them would say anything to get their sentence reduced & the police use them as a way to often build their false narrative. Its not like they dont have a motive.
If this is what Foster is getting up to now, he's even more pathetic than I thought he was.
Bailey tweeted this a few minutes ago...
Barely legible but seems to say that some families are being harassed to come forward with information. The suggestion is this is as a result of rumours on forums. I wonder if it is related to the Guard in Bantry?
If anyone has access to the article, the text would be appreciated.
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