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Pelletstown train station - How do you make a noise complaint?

Manion

Hi,

I live beside the recently opened Pelletstown train station. The planning permission (2109/13) effectively no noise increase however we've found there to be a significant increase in noise from intercity diesel trains idling at station and also a service that blows it's horn on approach to the station Monday to Friday at 12:30am (hitting 75db indoors). It doesn't seem particularly obvious how to raise this issue of trains idling and horns with Irish Rail.

Thanks.

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Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096357#Comment_118096357

Of course there was no horn blowing before the staton opened because a driver isn’t required to on a stretch to track with no station.

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096365#Comment_118096365

Yes.

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096176#Comment_118096176

Well unless your dad was an Irish rail employee then it sounds like he trespassed on a railway line and interfered with loco which is a just not on. Poster you live next to an active railway line, so I’m not sure what you expected. I live not far from Kent station in cork and I hear the class 201 blowing their horns several times on a Saturday and Sunday. By your logic I should put in a complaint to cork city council. And yes as has been pointed out to you trains are required to sound the horn at points along the line which do include stations.

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096384#Comment_118096384

It's interesting you never found and issue at Ashtown. Perhaps trains are traveling slower through the station due to the level crossing? There is quiet a lot of mature planting around the station which might mitigate noise.

Tbh acustics are a bit of a problem around the new development, especially on bridge avenue where sound just echoes up and down.

As someone else pointed out though, most building work hasn't been happening at night.

Manion

There it was again, tonight they decided to blow the horn both on approach and exit of the station usually it's just the once. When a rule cannot be referenced and cited and can change based on the whim of the driver then it's basically not a rule.

Now I know some people think thats just city living but it's still no reason to accept it. I brought up the 80s just to demonstrate how thing can change. The relationship with Irish rail was so bad in north inner city Dublin that at one point they paid out 3 thousand pounds to ever household along the Fairview to Connolly stretch of the line as compensation for distruption.

I like the train station, we bought here before it had real approval but where happy it did. I like the increased access to ashington and phoenix park as well. However it doesn't mean we just accept to initial set up. When they removed the kissing gates on the canal we had increased issues with scramblers and scooters, a few complaints and blocks where put down that allow bikes to pass but not scramblers, a compromise where everyone was happy.

Honestly I'd see this as being a major issue for Irish rail, the days of semi state companies running rough shot over communities is long over.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096377#Comment_118096377

no, their shift cannot be extended as there are a number of factors included in determining a shift length, some which are non-negotiable.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096357#Comment_118096357

because there wasn't an unmanned station where trains were passing through not stopping at 70 mph or more.

now there is, hence the horn is being sounded.

Snugbugrug28

Like a house on a flight path you could ask them to cover costs of triple glazed noise reduction windows to your bedrooms

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096384#Comment_118096384

At 12:30am?

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096362#Comment_118096362

It seems the rule isn't one imposed by CRR so they don't seem to think it's necessary. Civil servants are a slave to following rules unthinkingly. Maybe the shift of the train driver could be extended by 30 seconds so he can slow down sufficiently so as speed is not such a safety issue. There's lots of ways to skin a cat - but you have to be open to them.

Padre_Pio

It seems like a contradiction to have to sound a horn at an unmanned station.

Do they sound their horns at unmanned railway crossings?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096353#Comment_118096353

i have already explained why it may not be possible to slow down, and it has already been explained as to why the horn may have to be sounded.

the rules are there for good reason, a train is not something one messes with, they will not win, the railway always wins when a human is not behaving around it as they should.

Manion

Of course the station is the issue, I can't help but feel you're deliberately missing the point. There where no last night horns blowing before the station opened.

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096323#Comment_118096323

This is a typical computer says no response.

How about stop blowing the horn at 12:30am (as you said yourself trains make noise that's what they do - no horn is required so) or if the train speed is the issue why don't they just slow down when passing through the station.

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096297#Comment_118096297

Good question. Planning permission implied there was noise mitigation solutions that could be put in place, but did not provide specifics as it was assumed the noise level would be too low. I'd assume it would be some form of planting.

Secondly, and the reason I asked for the guidelines for the horn blowing, is that the station despite being unmanned can be closed off. Unlike other stations a long the line, platform access can be completely closed off. The gates looked automatic to me and I believe they are reviewing if they will close platform access for reasons of security. If the horn is being blown because people might be on the platform, closing access seems a compromise.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096321#Comment_118096321

realistically that may not be viable due to drivers hours.

the train and it's driver has to get to the depot or wherever it is being stored within a certain time frame with the drivers end of work in time.

between breaking, stopping, and starting up again that could take a driver just over their hours.

good idea theoretically but i suspect not viable in practice.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096293#Comment_118096293

the station has nothing to do with it, the same happenings have been happening on the railway long before it opened.

therefore he has been living beside an active railway without issue until now.

trains have to make noise as that is what they do.

they have to sound horns when approaching unmanned stations when not stopping because that is the rules and it is a safety precaution so as to be health and safety concious and for the health and safety of all of the public, as a train is not stopping in the same time frame as a road vehicle if the worst happens nor is it able to swerve to avoid.

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096297#Comment_118096297

How about after a certain time at night, these trains passing the station requiring the safety horn to be applied, actually stop at the station briefly, avoiding the need to sound the horn?

Did someone say these trains are empty anyway, and returning to stations?

Also I remember quite well Dusseldorf airport having a cutoff time of 10 or 10:30 pm for landing or take off and if you missed this then adiós and off to another airport! All due to residential noise restrictions....

Snugbugrug28

What do you propose can be done to address your complaint to your satisfaction?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096254#Comment_118096254

The OP didn't move beside an active station. The active station moved beside him.

I would definitely complain about a noise at 12.30, especially if other trains don't make the same noise.

Why do trains need to make this noise anyways? It's not like every car travelling 70mph has to beep it's horn as it passed every house.

Manion

Well I don't think he damaged them, he just turned them off. Pretty much a hero for it. Tbh im not sure there is any point discussing further with people who thinks it's OK to leave a massive diesel engine idling outside people's homes all night to the point you cannot even open a window. Disgraceful behavior from Irish Rail at the time.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096176#Comment_118096176

so your father tried to damage one of irish rail's trains and trespassed on the railway? wonderful.

irish rail was serving the public by leaving the locomotives running so they could up and go when required, meaning no delays or canceled services because they could not get a motive to start up, or due to the long time it would take for a successful start and warm up.

the dart west is still happening, so the objectors have ultimately lost, good news for the passengers which this very successful and vital project will benefit.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096068#Comment_118096068

the poster didn't revise their position, they have been clear all the way through.

locomotives were left running for the efficiency of the railway, as starting up locomotives at that time took a serious amount of time and sometimes they would not start in cold weather meaning delayed and canceled services if not left running.

it's very simple, if people live beside an active railway then they will just have to accept what comes with that, the same as if you move in beside an airport or an active motor way.

when it comes to infrastructure projects the greater good will win over a minority of complaints as the benefits outweigh the negatives and a lot more people will benefit, so any improvements on this or other lines will be happening.

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096121#Comment_118096121

I was replying to the other chap who seemed to think the issue was trains pulling into a station. Yep, I'm aware of the problem. In the early 90s my farther gained access to the rail line near our house and the main engine cabin for one of these diesel trains and turning off the engine. The Irish rail lads where out the next morning with blow torches trying to get the engines kicking over as apparently the starters didn't work. Anyway, they soon found a new location for the engines the idle.

I know some people really like trains, but Irish Rail is set up to serve the needs of the public not the other way around. I'm sure you've seen what a few well placed objections in this constituency has done for the Dart West timelines.

Montage of Feck

The idling of a diesel loco is a very soothing sound, you should should consider your self lucky.

LXFlyer

I know precisely what you were referring to regarding the diesels - as I said the issue was that if they shut them down overnight, that they would not be able to restart them the following morning. It was that simple.

To be quite honest, you sound like you have underlying issues with the railways?

Why not consider moving to somewhere nowhere near a rail line if it’s causing that much grief for you?

Manion

I think we've established this is not a rule set by the CRR with the poster revising their position. There is literally thousands of people living within 1000meters of this new station with hundreds of new homes being built as we speak practically on the steps of the platform. Regardless of "them being the rules" this is going to be an issue which generates substantial ill will towards Irish Rail at a time when projects like the Electrification of the line. During the construction phase I raised multiple noise complaints about SISK and frankly local councillors where very happy to field complaints about Irish Rail. People have a right to know who is making these rules and why.

Also I think you missed my point regarding diesel engines, these where trains left running over night at a standstill on the line in residential areas pumping out diesel fumes. A quick search found the practice was still happening at least up until 2006 when a hotel took a court case again Irish Rail.

end of the road

rules are rules, and the trains must sound the horn when approaching an unmanned station.

whoever set the rule doesn't actually matter, them's the rules and the drivers abide by them or else.

switching off diesels at every station is unviable.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095707#Comment_118095707

What I said was that the CRR have overall responsible for safety.

Beyond that IÉ have their own internal rules and these are not in the public domain.

Both of those combined determine how the railway operates.

I just happen to know that one of the rules is that if a train is passing through an unstaffed station without stopping, it must sound the horn as a safety measure, which, let’s be honest, given that it might be travelling at a speed of up to 70mph at Pelletstown, is probably reasonable.

I am not trying to make things up here, but realistically, you are living beside an operational railway - you have to accept that there is going to be noise at anti-social hours.

As for the diesels being left running back in the 80s and 90s, that was more the real problem that if they shut them down they would not restart - sounds daft, but that was the issue.

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095307#Comment_118095307

You stated that the CRR establish the safety rules which includes the blowing of horns at unmanned stations. All of the CRR current guidelines and standards are on their website at https://www.crr.ie/publications/guidelines/

So you should be able to point out where this requirement is stated in their publications, or you are wrong.