N13/N15 - Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass [planning decision pending]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099533#Comment_119099533

No, it was a long time before that (although that won't stop posters here from linking everything they don't like to the GP). The PSC was brought in to preventlarge capital expenditure based on grand notions despite there being no justifiable business case, that has nothing to do with the GP.

spacetweek

I think all chance of an "Atlantic Corridor that specifies that dual carriageways need to be built regardless of traffic" was kyboshed as soon as the Greens got into power.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080087#Comment_119080087

As 2 towns will be bypassed the appropriate funding would be more than value for money. A bit like a BOGOF 😎

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080230#Comment_119080230

Ah come on, the 90km between Sligo and Ballybofey will not be DC for a long long time, if ever. Traffic levels aren't there and the terrain is rough, the cost would be enormous. Each project has to justify itself, talk about vague hopes of replicating standards of another project which isn't even on the radar for the next 20 years isn't going to make a difference when it comes to the PSC.

The Moycullen bypass is currently being built as SC despite traffic volumes higher than that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080133#Comment_119080133

I didn't bemoan anything, what I said was "I can't see how a case can be made for spending €150m-€180m bypassing Ballybofey/Stranorlar". The cost now appears to be even higher. I think it will strugglebig time to get past the PSC.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080087#Comment_119080087

Ballybofey-Stranorlar is part of a nationally-important route corridor, connecting Derry and Letterkenny with Sligo and, from there, the westen half of the country. As such, despite the local AADT figures of under 8,000 (south of Ballybofey), having a consistent standard of road along the longer route corridor justifies a build as 2+2.

Also, the traffic counter data for the N15 here shows a very high proportion of HGV traffic (around 8%), which gives another push to proving a segregated road type, in order to provide safe overtaking.

Remember, 2+2 is only 10~15% more expensive than a properly engineered new-build Type 1 Single-carriageway road. Based on recent projects, it is clear that Type 1 SC is only considered now for routes that are unlikely to exceed 10,000 AADT (new-build type 1 SC has a design capacity of 13,500 AADT; 2+2 is 22,000). None of the three N13/N15 schemes fall into this bracket, as they’re currently at 7-11,000 AADT

timmyntc

Your first post bemoaned spending on a bypass, then its a dual carriageway. Which is it you are opposed to?

The bypass is massively needed as this is a huge choke point on all journeys north and south of Donegal. No national primary road in this day and age should involve driving through a main street full of shops, certainly not one as busy as the N15.

The twin towns bypass should be the most urgent of all those projects for Donegal CC, Letterkenny to Manor is the least urgent of the three.

L1011

The DC status is due to the "atlantic economic corridor" plan, rather than traffic levels. Intent is to have a DC from Letterkenny to Sligo regardless of whether current traffic levels require it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119077857#Comment_119077857

Don't need to live there to know that traffic levels are well within single carriageway recommended levels and similar to where SC has been used elsewhere. Look at Moycullen with more traffic and the cost of its bypass. I doubt the required funding will ever to approved for building a dual carriageway grade separated bypass of these towns.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119077719#Comment_119077719

Try living here or drive through the towns twice daily and then you will understand.

Whatever about the other two, I can't see how a case can be made for spending €150m-€180m bypassing Ballybofey/Stranorlar, nevermind with a whack of inflation on top of that.

https://www.donegallive.ie/news/local-news/813671/top-three-donegal-road-projects-will-cost-over-500m.html

The latest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459164#Comment_118459164

This hasn’t even been submitted for planning yet. 2026 start at the absolute earliest.

Mossir

Wonder is there a start date? Who the contractor?

spacetweek

This wasn't mentioned in the 2022 Allocations announcement.

https://www.donegal-ten-t.ie/modules/download_gallery/dlc.php?file=54&id=1638712004&sid=164

Latest work in progress drawing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087222#Comment_118087222

There's a project underway to upgrade the stretch of N4 you mentioned to a 2+2 dual carriageway. See the "N4 Mullingar to Rooskey" thread here, or the public consultation page: N4 Mullingar to Longford (Roosky) Project Public Consultation

firemansam4

I guess im just basing it on the volume of traffic that uses the road. I recently drove up on the N4 from Meath direction towards Sligo and their is a single carriageway stretch from just past Mullingar to Longford which just always seems to be constant heavy streams of traffic and if there was ever a case of a road needing to be turned into a DC then that is it. While the N13/N15 can be busy at times I dont think the traffic volumes are anything like that road.

However what you say about the cost difference only being 10% more does make a lot of sense as well, I would have thought the cost difference would be a lot more than that.

Donegal Storm

Edit: wrong thread

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087222#Comment_118087222

I’m reading lots of people putting their own fears into the head of the Minister for Transport, but is there any evidence that he opposes this scheme in particular?

spacetweek

The Minister for Transport probably doesn't care if going single carriageway doesn't save much money - for him it's more about avoiding signing off on large-scale roads. Downgrading to single C is totemic for him.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084943#Comment_118084943

I don't agree that there's no need for a dual carriageway. Although the Bundoran->Letterkenny road is a fine road for the most part, there are very few proper overtaking opportunites. The Ballyshannon bypass, for instance, should have been built as a dual carriageway instead of a 2+1. Anyway, if not a dual carriageway, the road would be built as a WS2, and IIRC, the difference in land take and cost is only around 10% - might as well do it right if you're doing it at all.

firemansam4

I would like to see this scheme go ahead but what is being proposed is overkill, their is no need for dual carriageway, there is also no need for all the link roads into ballybofey.

IMO a single carriageway just before Kilross junction to the far side of ballybofey would surfice with maybe one junction to the Fintown road. This would make a huge difference and would stand a far better chance of going ahead to whats planned.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080961#Comment_118080961

Have you a source for that opposition? Capacity enhancement is not bad in itself, especially on routes that are inadequate to safely carry the natural demand for transport, and Donegal is a place where even public transport alternatives will need to use roads. There’s also a strong safety case to be made for these roads.

Reduction of private-car commuting is essential, but if you don’t fix the road, it will be impossible to convince people that using a bus is a better option than a private car: both will be stuck in the same bottlenecks. (A rail line will never happen in Donegal unless it’s run out of a hub in Derry, and given the whole A5 debacle, that’s never going to happen, even if we pay for it all..)

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080961#Comment_118080961

A decade ago, roads were being canned because of externally-imposed fiscal austerity. Now roads are being canned because of self-imposed climate austerity, with seemingly zero lessons learned on the importance of investing in connectivity during the last decade.

Just build the darn road. If making it easier/safer for rural people and businesses to get around by car is now sufficient reason to block a road, it's hard to see any bypass (or any other road project) ever progressing to construction. This religious obsession with avoiding any measure which could make driving even slightly easier (even in rural areas) is so short-sighted, misguided, and mean-spirited. It cannot be allowed to drive government policy in this country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080704#Comment_118080704

Yes but so far it's been a joint project with the Letterkenny to Lifford scheme and the Letterkenny eastern improvements. If they all go in together there's a lot of capacity enhancement the Greens aren't particularly in favour of.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077632#Comment_118077632

I thought that the Greens are in favour of small bypasses - it's just long motorways that they don't like? And 8km is definitely a small bypass and definitely the minimum of what's needed here.