The amusing aspect of your reaction is that Jack claimed to be worried he would be dismissed if he revealed his views were religiously based (I don't think they are in the grand scheme of thing). I presume he didn't believe they would be dismissed by his fellow mass migration advocates. Oh well.
I didn’t get that the first time either to be honest, the idea of humans being punished with diversity. Questioning anti-immigration narratives is not “advocating multiculturalism”. I already acknowledge that Irish society is comprised of groups of people with their own distinct ethnicity and culture and beliefs and values and so on. For example I don’t share much of your values even though we’re both Irish, and the best explanation you can come up with for the disparity is that I’m the victim of mass media propaganda and I’m not equipped to understand the complexity of your argument.
“Be humble”, my arse, even you know you’re spouting bullshìt at this stage 😏
God?
ah right!
What difference does it make if your cousins are American, not Irish?
No, you were talking about ethnically irish. As I said she is Nigerian, she is also an Irish citizen.
Why would that make multiculturalism a terrible idea? what difference does it make?
Okay, so you don't believe Ebun Joseph is as Irish as you are. We progress.
Even you, an advocate of mass migration make those distinctions. So does everyone else, including Ebun Joseph. That is why multiculturalism (and the mass migration that creates it) is a terrible idea.
Lets face it, Ebun Joseph is in Ireland, affecting the course of the Irish state. She has a higher claim to the future of the Irish people than your cousins do.
And again
I have no idea where you come up with the idea that I believe people who have arrived here are ethnically irish?
Would you like to point out anywhere that I have suggested that recent arrivals are ethnically irish?
She is Nigerian. Born to Nigerian parents in Nigeria. She is an Irish citizen.
My cousins are Irish, born to Irish parents.
Would you suggest they would be.more Irish if born in Ireland?
Multiculturalism is the equivalent of going swimming while wearing a cement lifejacket. As I pointed out to you already, God punished and destroyed an overly proud human civilisation with diversity. Be humble, learn from God.
Advocating multiculturalism in the 21st century is the equivalent of watching hundreds, thousands of people drowning in cement life jackets and thinking - no, this time it will be different.
I can understand perfectly how any individual can consider anything to be complex and mutable while at the same time drawing some conclusions about good practice, so when I apply that to the idea of multiculturalism, it still doesn’t change the idea that multiculturalism is predicated upon the idea of multiple ethnicities and cultures present in any given society.
It’s really not complex at all. The good practices anyone refers to are ideas based entirely upon their own individual perspective, portraying their own interests as being in the interests of everyone in society. It stands to reason that such a person would view anyone who disagrees with them as an enemy of the people.
It’s not exactly a new tactic -
Do you recognise Ebun Joseph (for example) as being a fellow Irish woman, or a Nigerian? I mean she is at least as much a Nigerian as your cousins are Irish, right?
On reflection, I think our disagreement may be based on a misunderstanding on the terminology: what "Irish" means. You think that your cousins born in a foreign country, raised in a foreign country, living in a foreign country, assimilating to the norms of a foreign country are just as Irish as you are. Maybe that is true.
Jack - Lets just put it down to you not understanding that someone can consider a topic like ethnic identity to be complex and mutable while at the same time drawing some conclusions about good practise. For example, how a person might struggle to define the difference between a sea and an ocean. But they know wearing a cement life jacket while swimming in either is probably a bad idea.
‘Scuse me? No principle or foundation to my view, coming from the poster who in the very same post, declares that ethnicity is organic and changes over time, but one can’t declare themselves Irish if they are or of Irish descent or they are recognised by the State as being Irish, and anyone who finds your nonsense about “mass immigration denying Irish people a homeland” amusing, is sufficient evidence for you to suggest that they don’t think much of Irish people? Not their fault because they’ve absorbed mass media narratives?
How is that anything other than mental gymnastics in order to maintain your position? In spite of having explained to you at length the foundations of my position which have nothing to do with mass media, you still declare otherwise.
Hell I didn’t even bother to address your idea that Christianity is pretty much dead in Ireland even though it’s still pervasive in every facet of Irish society from education to hospitalisation, Comhaltas, GAA, Scouts, and still you insist on maintaining the narrative that you care about Irish society when you really aren’t all that clued in at all. The best argument you can come up with against something which isn’t even happening, is what Irish society might look like at some point in the next millennium!
You might then show some concern for Irish people, but you don't seem to.
As for the 'pure bred race' bollocks. Have I not said again and again that the Irish have assimilated other peoples throughout history? Have I not stressed again and again how ethnicity is organic and changes over time? Only on the last page I mentioned the ethnic Scandinavians being assimilated by the Irish (itself a composite of Gaelic and foreign peoples/influences) and your cousins changing ethnicity to become Americans. Heal thyself.
The reality is I see ethnicity more clearly than you do. You think your cousins Irish ethnicity endures through their pure breeding alone. But equally you'd do mental gymnastics to claim that recent arrivals to Ireland without a drop of Irish descent had left their ethnic heritage behind them at the arrivals gate and were as ethnically Irish as anyone else. There isn't any principle or foundation to your view - it is just whatever is expedient and convenient to the argument you're making at the time. But again, as I pointed out to One Eyed Jack, this isn't your fault - you've absorbed the mass media narratives so of course you regurgitate them. Were the mass media offering better narratives, you would regurgitate those instead.
I am Irish, not sure why you would think I don't have positive views of Irish people.
Your view of Irish people however, that they should be some kind of a pure bred race, with no mixing with other nationalities, is not what I or others believe. Thankfully!
Whenever they fail to identify as being primarily Irish, or aren't recognised by others as being primarily Irish then they'll stop being Irish. The latter can happen quite a bit faster. When Irish people don't agree that an American or an Englishman with an Irish grandmother can credibly describe themselves as being Irish. They'll always have some Irish descent of course, but eventually that becomes about as important as saying someone is descended from western hunter gatherers.
You finding the prospect of mass migration denying Irish people a homeland amusing doesn't do much to convince anyone that you have positive views of the Irish people.
I'm clearly not 🙄
They are Irish citizens, by law and they are also Irish ethnicity.
when would you consider someone to be no longer of Irish ethnicity? What if one grandparent was not irish? Or one great grandparent?
And why would it matter?
Irish people give away their homeland, hilarious
You're conflating Irish citizenship (which subject to certain conditions can automatically pass to people born outside Ireland) with Irish ethnicity. Its not the same thing at all - people can hold Irish citizenship without any Irish descent at all. Your cousins may be of Irish descent, but ethnicity is organic and is subject to change. Your cousins can identify anyway they please. If they identify primarily as being Americans, or Irish Americans, and are recognised as such and their Irish heritage is just an interesting family history lesson then clearly they wont be Irish as in the meaning of Irish people who identify as being Irish primarily. Your cousins or their descendants will eventually assimilate as Americans, whatever that means then. Irish people on the other hand will follow a different path.
This is why we don't have an ethnic Scandinavian minority in Ireland. Ethnic Scandinavians settled here, but they were assimilated into the Irish over time and stopped identifying as anything else.
But back to the original point - Ireland is the only homeland the Irish people have. Once it is recklessly gambled away through mass migration, the Irish people will have no homeland, no political expression of their people. It's difficult to reconcile advocates of mass migration desire for this outcome with any sort of positive opinion towards Irish people.
But they are, by law Irish. They are also by law by virtue of their birth American. They can describe themselves whatever way they like.
How accurate is this, why are CSO figures so wrong if so? CSO officially estimate 20,000 Brazilians in Ireland, Brazil embassy says at least 70,000 with many more planning to come......If the scale of underreporting is this vast for just one country what is the total foreign born population in Ireland, way higher than the reported 18%
Also this week the government have further relaxed our employment visa regulations to bring in more people..
I have many cousins in the USA born to Irish parents . I don't consider them Irish and if I asked them they would say no . I dont know your background to decide . Years ago when this forum was full blown left , some tried to claim I was not Irish as my ancestors came from Scotland in the 17th Century .
No I didnt. I asked a question. Are my cousins born in a different country to Irish parents irish? Which, of course, we know they are. Nothing about what I consider. That's fact.
Never mentioned anything about Irish born. Of course then I was abused by a poster trying to suggest that I wasn't 'full irish' whatever that means.
posts deleted now, must have been abuse.
You posted about natives and what you consider native . You cant debate it but instead try to deflect .
They would need a justice system that was feared... and they don't have one. It's one of the weaknesses of Western culture when dealing with those not raised within it. Those raised outside of Europe will have experienced a harsher way of life, and won't be terribly impressed by our sentencing or prison system. Many of those involved will have done time already in Russian prisons, and European prisons will be holiday camps in comparison. Where is the fear in getting caught? And considering the numbers of people with repeated charges/convictions walking the streets, they probably have good legal options for limiting their time in prison.
Human trafficking is too profitable a business to ever disappear. Just as mass immigration is also too profitable, and any desire to limit it will face serious opposition from many sources, all of whom rely on it for their wealth and influence.
Interesting from France’s Secretary of State for European Affairs, Clément Beaune:
Speaking on Wednesday, Clément Beaune said that Minsk wants to break up the EU through mass immigration.
“Human trafficking is organized by the Lukashenko family directly, along with third countries,” he said. “It is cleverly organized through Turkey and Dubai.”
Earlier this month, German foreign minister Heiko Maas dubbed the Belarusian leader “the head of a state-run smuggling ring.”
Interesting times indeed...... perhaps they could match their words with actions now and stop these smuggling operations....
sure can’t we just disband the army... sure we were never at war....save millions a year.
Close...Curragh camp, McKee barracks, Finner Camp.... hundreds of acres to be building them houses on... nice ones too
#irelandforall #bestiesnotborders
Which has what to do with my post?
Irish native and Irish born are 2 different things . Native Americans are Indians .
Nah they will just borrow more .
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