I'm of the opinion that the gap between international standard players and provincial players in Ireland has decreased. But we discuss international squads as if the gap was still huge.
It probably doesn't make a huge difference if Farrell selects Casey as 3rd choice 9 or blade, McGrath, cooney or Marmian the difference between them on a world stage is fairly minimal. Or Harry byrne, Jack carty of burns etc the gap isn't that great and they are only getting a few token minutes anyway.
Farrel will pick all the central contracted players plus a few likely lads. Anyone using form as a guide to selection is smoking the funny stuff imo
Andy Farrell has given 22 new caps in 16 games.
Ian Foster has given 14 new caps in 17 games.
Andy Farrell has given so many new caps that the “we’re too conservative” argument has been practically distilled down to a single position, without any hint of irony.
And even then, I’m pretty sure Farrell has given debuts to Burns and Harry Byrne, and a 2nd Test start to Ross Byrne.
A lot of what’s being claimed just doesn’t stack up to any scrutiny.
Harry Byrne 22
Ryan Baird 22
craig Casey 22
Then you have Ronan Kelleher, Dan Sheehan, Gavin Coombes, Finian Whycherly, all 23.
if you’re good enough, you will make it through. Ireland aren’t any different than NZ in that. There’s a path way for all professionals. Tupea Quinn has 40 professional games under his belt at 22.
It is absolutely nothing to do with age.
As always, people are pissed off that their pet players haven't been picked but are trying to deflect from that. And coming up with some spectacular nonsense in doing so.
In the current Irish squad we have three 22 year olds and four 23 year olds.
I don't know what point your trying to make but it can't be that we don't give youth a chance
Of the current ABs squad there's Tupaea Quinn 22, Josh Lord 20 and Ethan De Groot 22, the point I was trying to make is the Nov series is the time to try out some young talent against Japan and Argentina, sure play our A team against the ABs they won't get a chance in the 6 nations, hopefully the summer tout of NZ, but these lads have to be tried out under pressure, who knows we could unearth another Rog and Stringer.
I hope he does, we desperately need creative players. Really been disappointed with Larkhams influence. Munster have a lot of quality in the backs that isn't being used well.
He had a run of games around Dec / Jan 2019 where he was very good.
Following that, he had an appearance off the bench early for an injured Sexton against Scotland where he played better than anything we’ve seen from any of the other options for Ireland, imo.
He’s not good enough at the moment. But I think he has a higher ceiling than the other options like Burns, RB and Carty if he can re-find his form. I’m not denying it’s a big “if” at the moment, mind.
I'm struggling to join the dots between Munster fans praising their players and Andy Farrell picking his Irish squad.
Kirwan got his debut before any of the current Ireland squad were even born. I think OP has defeated his own argument.
Ok so we have 2 of the greatest all blacks of all time. Jonah Lomu an absolute genetic freak. John Kirwan one of the greatest players ever. Both of who came through before professional rugby existed. But good examples, do continue.
He didn't do much when he was fit. Certainly nothing to suggest he could challenge Sexton. I feel like most of the hype for him still goes back to his Leinster days.
He hasn’t been good enough since his return in March, but in the previous 2 years he had ~200 minutes for Munster. Your “It’s been years” comment is more than a little disingenuous.
I think thats a lot of supposition and hope being put into Carberry, without much evidence to support it. Similar to the hope that Murray and Sexton could be played back into form. If he was good enough, he'd be showing it currently. Fact is, it's been years since he's lived up to the billing
Murray has been playing like a glacier for years now, it's a joke he's still getting picked, let alone starting.
Basically it comes down to Farrell not rating Carty. He can outplay other 'deemed better' number 10's. Munster last week. Ulster this week.
Non of that matters. All that matters is Carbery once had form. (I forget the year) and he'll find it again, some time. Sooner, later, who knows.
As for Burns? I honestly have no idea. Non. Zero.
We overrate and hype our players but we also give out about them? Clear.
A former Irish U20? That's a minimum standard for a professional contract these days - it doesn't really mean a whole lot.
Also the irony of saying Munster overrate their players while simultaneously implying that Niall Murray should be in the Irish team is glorious
Are you suggesting Farrell is picking players based on supporters' hype?
Ahern isn't even in the squad proper, he's there as a development player.
I thought it was the format change that screwed this place but it wasn't. It's the lack of modding. Trolling and provincial baiting have ruined any kind of discussion.
Yes, but selection needs to have one eye on the RWC. If Carty is deemed to not be good enough to be a long term option for Ireland then he shouldn’t be selected. Because if he were we’d be pissing away game time on him that someone else could be getting.
Did he play well this weekend? Yes (although he missed an absolute sitter that I don’t think any of the others would have missed). Has he played well in other games this season? Yes. Has he contributed to Connacht losing games this season? Yes. Does he set standards at the club? No. There’s a lot of downside to go with the upside. And no sign that this will change. So we need to invest in someone else.
Some people don’t seem to understand the difference between form and consistency. We know Carbery, for example, can put together a string of performances that will suffice at Test level. We don’t know that about Carty because he can’t put together a string of performances at league level. So we’ve chosen to invest in the younger player that we know can teach the required level consistently as opposed to the older player who can blow hot and cold. It’s far from a crazy decision. It’s actually quite a sensible one.
i dont see the hype around casey...
Munster have a real issue overstating their players,
A few years back they took keatley from connacht and the locals just h=gave out about him
then carbury, same thing....
The reality is Munster just arent that good, An ahern gets brought into the national squaud, while a Conn @nd row who was outstanding and former Irish U20, dosent even get a look in, even thou he is playing week in vs out.
Well of course Kirwan and Lomu had no professional rugby experience when they made their test debuts. Rugby wasn't professional.
JK was an absolute freak back in the day. Also Lomu was dropped after his first 2 tests because he was awful. He was sent away to learn his trade for a year. Ioane had at least a year of pro rugby behind him and had spent a few months in the AB squad before taking the field.
This place really is parody of itself at times.
Guts not guys.
God where do I start, I'll name 3 stand outs, Jonah Lomu age 19, John Kirwin age 19 and Rieko Ioane also 19 and I know for a fact there's many more, we just haven't got the guys to take a chance on youth
Murray got his first 20 mins of the season just last night, and Craig Casey has been in good form, so I don’t know how you’re coming to this conclusion.
At least he can be fantastic at times. Some of the others haven't even proven that much yet. Obviously his face doesn't fit with Farrell and that's probably that for his international chances but there is just no way there are 3, 4 or even 5 better players in his position playing at the moment. I'm not sure how many Farrell has in front of him at present.
I think Carty's inconsistency is wildly overstated. It's amazing how the same charge doesn't get leveled against players who are in garbage form. At this stage it's practically a meme, up there with Unseen Work.
Fact is he's playing better than anyone not named Sexton. The Munster halfbacks are entirely represented despite being in terrible form. It's ludicrous frankly.
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