That might mean moving from Leinster.
“Fair play to him anyway. But he’s still wrong”.
😉
JVG reads boards clearly.
Fair play to him anyway
Still should have started Healy last week
If its any consolation I thought burns was useless before the missed that penalty touch finder v Wales.
Would it be fair to say the fitness of all 3 could be a concern tho? It's probably accurate to say they are our 3 most injury prone 10's at this point. It's probably atypical that all 3 of them are fit at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one is injured by the end of the Autumn Internationals (tip wood).
Had to root this out from last weekend; JVG sticking with his tried, trusted and failed until the end of time by.... giving Crowley his first start this weekend.
I m mystified as to how the narrative has descended that Burns does not goal kick. He absolutely does. He stopped doing it a few games back because of an injury to his right ankle that he has carried for a while. He is a pretty decent kicker. Not like Madigan or Cooney but acceptable enough. He probably could get better. He missed a touch kick v. Wales and suddenly he was useless. The opprobrium cascaded on to him was quite shameful. Sexton made exactly the same error in the same game. That was o.k.apparently. Sexton missed a simple penalty in 2013 v. the ABs that would almost certainly have won the game. Sensibly there was no real finger pointing over it. Oddly, the missed kick is from an area of the field on the right from which he has uncharacteristically missed a few.
Quite simply put, Sexton is playing fine rugby, is our best 10. If this is still the case in 2023 he should be our RWC 10. Looking at the pack of 10s behind him is a little disconcerting. It is a pity that Carbery looks a bit adrift at the moment. Ross Byrne is a very good player but has 2 significant gaps in his game. He lacks the acceleration and speed of a top 10 and seems reluctant to attack the line and bring players on from there. I keep hearing about Harry B. and how high his ceiling is. How do people know that. Is there a crystal ball shop somewhere that specialises in the future development of players. We have all read the narrative. "Player A should be picked because he has a 'higher ceiling.' Player B shouldn't be selected because, although he is playing better than player A, his 'ceiling' isn't as high." Player B is always from the other team strangely. Suffering f*ck. Let's hope Harry Byrne produces the goods quickly....or Healy at Munster. WE need to protect Sexton as much as possible while at the same time getting on with one or 2 of the others in green.
Just on the Autumn Internationals...I'd take a pretty radical approach. I'd pick our strongest XV against either Japan or Argentina and I'd actually try a couple of guys (2-3 max) out against NZ.
If people like Gavin Coombes, Craig Casey, James Hume and Robert Baloucoune can perform against NZ then Farrell will have no fears about picking them against anyone in the future. If he just plays them against Japan or Argentina then it will be too easy to not pick them ahead of a tried and trusted player against England or France in the 6Ns.
Developing the squad and exposing these guys to build for the 6Ns and ultimately the WC is more important that beating NZ for a third time IMO.
Japan are improved, but we have to expect to beat then at home, and by the time we play Argentina at the end of the series their players will.have their minds on rare steaks and red wine in Argentina.
Test some of these younger guys against NZ and you'll learn a lot more about them.
Crowley is the one that really interests me. He was good at U20 level for Ireland, but like a lot of players in that 19-21 age group he has missed a hell of a lot of rugby due to Covid. But the fact ROG wanted to sign him would make me think he has something about him. I'll be tuning into the Munster to watch him alone.
As for the three 10s picked, IMO they are absolutely the right call.
Sexton obviously is our best 10
Carbery has delivered at 10 for Ireland (6Ns in Murray field, last 20 mins against the ABs in Chicago).in a way that the others haven't
Harry Byrne is a gut pick. Anyone who has watched him will have seen how he has time on the ball even when he takes it to the line. Is he a form pick? No. But he is the right pick in terms of building to 2023 and beyond. However his fitness is definitely a concern.
I think Frawley will end up having to play 10 at some point.
Maybe the best way to look at the whole out half situation is to look at who can feasibly become a real Test level 10 and who can’t.
Sexton - already is Test level.
Ross Byrne - almost certainly won’t ever be Test level. Too slow and doesn’t threaten the line. Stands far too deep when behind a struggling pack.
Harry Byrne - has genuine potential to be Test level option, but injury has robbed him of any chance to show us one way or the other.
Carbery - we know he can at least do a job at Test level despite his form being poor.
Healy - has shown glimpses of potential at league level so could be considered an option. The only real difference between himself and Harry Byrne is that Harry has had a good bit of time in camp and has been capped.
Burns - the best performing 10 outside of Sexton but has limitations. Not the best defensively, doesn’t goalkick and had a real shocker vs Wales. Possibly an option but does he have much room for growth or has he hit his ceiling?
Madigan - not an option and injured.
Lowry - too small and too little game time at 10 really so not much of an option.
Carty - completely unreliable in terms of his week to week performances. Not an option as at 29 it’s all but impossible to see him urning things around at this stage.
Fitzgerald - barely able to get a game for Connacht.
So of the guys who are possible options, only Burns and Ben Healy have been left out. And it’s not like they are shocking omissions. There’s logic for excluding both.
It’s good to see Crowley starting this weekend though. Hopefully he can add his name to the pot over the course of this season. But with the reduced number of games that might be tough.
Possibly, but it remains to be seen. We get so much upside from him in the loose, but his biggest issue is his lineout throwing. It seemed to improve across the board in the 6 Nations, but his issues resurfaced against Japan, iirc. Hopefully he can put those issues behind him soon.
Jeremy Davidson, Gary Longwell, Ian Henderson, Rory Best. You probably should have narrowed it down to props, I can't think of a single top quality prop Ulster have produced. Declan Fitzpatrick possibly the closest?
I agree with the notion that Carberry is there on reputation! But, what reputation? He's struggling atm.
Murray will be in the rear view soon enough! Casey and Blade look like they could be the future with Doak in the mix. JGP is also viable, but I think he's better off the bench!
Shane Byrne
Well, technically there's Bernard Jackman and James Tracy, but your point stands.
Probably worth noting Kelleher is the best hooker Leinster have brought through... actually now that I think about it, is he the best hooker Leinster have brought through since the game turned pro? It was a fairly fallow position for home-grown talent, unless I'm having a massive blank Shane Byrne was the last international hooker Leinster have had. Cronin and Strauss obviously not Leinster products originally.
It's the same with every team.
Munster don't produce centres
Ulster don't produce tight 5 forwards
Then there's Connacht who are just a bunch of rejects from the other provinces.......I'm only messing calm down!
Leinster have a phenomenal talent for developing quality layers in the same position. Porter/Furlong mc grath/Healy a pile of back rows but then struggle to get a top class 9.
Himself and Sheehan are locks to be in the 23 for the 6Ns. You can't leave that talent sitting in the stands.
Nah I think Kelleher is definitley 1st choice now.
I could be wrong of course, but I'm 90% sure he starts against NZ
He's was unreal in the summer and the experience of being away with the Lions looks to have elevated him as he's started the season really well.
He's the epitome of the modern day hooker, basically a 4th back rower. He has the potential to be one of, if not the best hooker in the world. Up there with Taylor, Marx and Marchand.
“Similar to how Herring was for Kelleher.”
Didn’t Herring start 4 of the 6 Nations games while Kelleher just started against Italy?
Kelleher is definitely the future, but Farrell seems to like Herring so it seems premature to assume Kelleher has surpassed him already.
We desperately need to move away from the Murray-Sexton axis.
It just doesn't work anymore. It's had it's day and belongs in 2018. We need a 9 who plays direct, round the corner and at a high tempo.
Calling JGP band average is very harsh. He's a decent albeit not world class player. You can clearly see why Farrell likes him as he plays the game the way Farrell wants to. Very quick delivery, likes to take a few steps and commit fringe defenders and is a running threat. He was excellent v Japan in the summer.
I can see him being a stop-gap player while Casey develops. Similar to how Herring was for Kelleher.
Folks are rightly criticising putting too much investment in Sexton, yet Murray seems to be sailing by unmentioned. He's not been in good form for a long while, to be generous. How Farrell decided to take 3 of the Munster pivot players, when their back play is arguably the poorest out of all the provinces is a mystery. Only Casey could be said to be there on form and potential. Doak looks to be the best SH prospect in a long while. He should be getting invested in over a washed Murray and bang average JGP.
I wasnt wrong, look at the R.Byrne performance versus England to Sexton's performance in March 2020 versus England.
I know what he was getting at. I was just saying form doesn’t always guarantee inclusion or exclusion. Though at the same time Carty’s form hasn’t screamed inclusion either. Apart from Sexton and possibly Burns no one has.
Doak has shown more at senior level that H Byrne.
No he hasn't.
I like Doak a lot but that is just factually incorrect.
Byrne's development had been hindered by injuries but he's been playing for Leinster since 2019 and he has had some very good games. Byrne also has a European appearance and an Ireland cap.
I sense some recency bias there because Byrne has been injured lately while Doak has been playing well. But to say Doak has shown more at senior level just isn't true.
That's not to detract from Doak, who is very good.
My issue is with the OH selection in the squad is if Sexton gets injured in minute one of game one and can't play for the November series I see Ross Byrne starting over the other 2 in the squad. That's more an indictment of Carberrys form that Harry's ability
Yeah Byrne being the future and being in camp makes sense
Carberry being there at the moment doesn't, and yeah it's an argument about a second choice OH but Ireland shouldn't be playing Johnny this November,
at a point competitive starts and depth in minutes played needs to be created ( and that's hasn't happened because of many reasons)
Fear of life without Johnny needs to start to be prep for life without
I'm actually OK with the third choice out half being there based on potential. The same as Casey was there last year based on potential.
However burns should be there ahead of carberry. Carberry is in poor form, hasn't really the credit in the bank and is incredibly injury probe. He does not deserve to be there, and I'm saying that as a munster fan. The next best outhalf in Ireland is burns. Carty was the best outhalf in Ireland last week, and the worst the week before. You just can't trust him and hence he shouldn't be in the Ireland conversation.
I find the squad a very good balance of youth and experience. Winger is the area that is a little disappointing with earls there but there isn't really anyone that should feel they deserve to be there.
Again I find it strange that Haley misses out. I know he's only a full back but if keenan missed a tournament I'd have him as the next best full back and for that reason I'd have him in these wider squads.
I get that position. As I’ve said myself, I don’t think Harry has earned his place. If you look back over the conversation you’ll see I had Burns ahead of him too.
However, I also get that Byrne has a higher ceiling than Burns. And given his age he has more room to grow and develop and could be around for a lot longer than Burns. So it’s a trade off in that respect and I understand why Farrell went the way that he did, even if I’d have done something slightly different myself. After all, our options at 10 are not good. So why not give the young guy with potential a good opportunity now? It’s not like we have much to lose in that regard anyway.
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