6 days ago, two-thirds of patients in ICU's are not vaccinated. It takes moments to look this stuff up. Keep in mind the unvaccinated currently only constitute about 7% of the adult population.
well then ask for it rather than posting irrelevant nonsense and claiming some fantastic Gotcha! based on 5 minutes of poor "research"
Do you have a source for that?
what is your source for antigen testing with an accuracy of 50%?
From this study it states:
“In people with confirmed COVID-19, antigen tests correctly identified COVID-19 infection in an average of 72% of people with symptoms, compared to 58% of people without symptoms.”
So in symptomatic people who spread Covid much more & in higher viral loads it has an accuracy of 72% based on this study. Very useful when trying to make an immediate decision if people are symptomatic.
The Hse have released information to the public re ICU rates running from April to Oct, and most recently from June to Oct. All while the vaccination campaign was just underway. There have been no figures released as to current Icu occupancy of vaccinated v Unvaccinated.
The latest figures for Irish hospitals show around a third in hospital are unvaccinated, and two thirds in ICU are unvaxxed
The approx. 7% of the adult population who aren't vaccinated are taking up a disproportionate amount of hospital resources in both scenarios
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/unvaccinated-placing-disproportionate-burden-on-health-service-says-donnelly-1.4700711
You have literally contributed nothing to the thread. And that goes for most threads you post in, empty and uninformative posts.
You asked for a source Markus. Here is the source.
The source you requested is in the post above this one.
you looking in the mirror again?
Ok so the claim: "the unvaccinated are using far more hospital resources, and therefore are causing problems" is false. Thanks.
Not sure why they are giving anecdotes rather than publishing the actual data for everyone to see...
Explain how it's false? Unvaccinated people are using disproportionally more hospital resources that vaccinated people.
Approx 7% of the adult population is unvaccinated, yet they account for one-third (approx 33%) of Covid patients in Irish hospitals and two-thirds (approx. 66%) of Covid patients in ICU. Which means the claim is correct.
"Far more" and "disproportionately more" are not the same thing. If there was 10 cases in hospital and 1 person in ICU the statement "unvaccinated make up a disproportionate amount of cases" is still true, but a worthless statistic.
In addition to this, they don't give any indication of what proportion are in hospital due to underlying illness and just so happen to have contracted covid.
The fact that extreme measures (yes, requiring proof of your health status is extreme) are being maintained off the back of anecdotes from 2 people and not being transparent with the figures is unacceptable.
It depends on the test being used and the skill of the person using it, a lot of the at home test have much lower accuracy:
Evaluation of Abbott BinaxNOW Rapid Antigen Test for SARS-CoV-2 Infection at Two Community-Based Testing Sites — Pima County, Arizona, November 3–17, 2020 | MMWR (cdc.gov)
From a reopening perspective, it's expected they would catch about half the cases that PCR would, better than 0, much worse than a vaccine (so really, you should be using vaccine + antigen test).
Semantics.
7% of unvaccinated Covid patients are taking up 33% of the total beds for Covid. Again, out of that 7% of unvaccinated adults, they are taking up two-thirds of ICU beds for Covid patients, a factor of over 9.
There are similar ratios everywhere
In the UK, of 203 Covid patients admitted for critical care in NE London hospitals (Jul - Sept), 90% were not fully vaccinated
In a hospital in Rome, it's similar figures (90% to 95% unvaccinated)
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211013-in-rome-hospital-unvaccinated-patients-fill-coronavirus-beds
Similar figures in Germany according to this report
The US
It's disproportionate. No matter how much you try to play with words, unvaccinated Covid patients are putting a (far) higher strain on hospitals than vaccinated Covid patients.
Tag….I’m back in. I see that while I was on my tea break, my colleagues from the late shift caught the slack and yet again proved Markus wrong.
can't be proven wrong if you don't read the evidence **taps head**
Taking the numbers from the post you replied to ...
if 7% of the adult population is unvaccinated, you would expect 7% of the hospitalised covid patients to be unvaccinated. However 33% are unvaccinated, so nearly 5 times what you would expect. Do you agree with this?
if 7% of the adult population is unvaccinated, you would expect 7% of the ICU covid patients to be unvaccinated. However 66% in ICU are unvaccinated, so over 9 times what you would expect. Do you agree with this?
Are you trying to say that vaccination status doesn't make any difference? If so how do you reconcile your claim with the two points above? Are those numbers wrong? If so what are the correct numbers?
1 in 4 in hospital are unvaccinated and the ICU numbers are relatively low anyway (75) so saying that "the unvaccinated are using far more resources" is completely false.
I've already acknowledged that the unvaccinated are disproportionately represented but who cares? It could easily flip the other way in two weeks, two months, 6 months.
My problem is that the numbers don't justify the sanctions. We're shutting off 10% of the adult population to full access to the economy for the sake of already low hospitalisation and ICU numbers. It's hitting a nut with a sledge hammer and makes no sense other than to sneer and hiss at the unvaccinated much like how people do in this forum - a lot of effort to achieve nothing.
bit of a fundamental flaw in your point there.... and it involves Ireland's health service being shite....
The "official" number of ICU beds for the whole of Ireland (ROI) is circa 290, depending on where you look.... however, it never really hits this number for various reasons, trained staff shortages being a huge contributor... In reality, and for anyone with relatives in the HSE will know this, the daily number is usually closer to the 220 to 240 mark... They put special measures in place if it gets to the 200-210 mark
The HSE are very cagey about how many beds are available at any one time, because it exposes the rot under the façade they like to paint.
However, this came out yesterday..... (11 adult ICU beds left, if you can't be arsed reading)
No plan to deploy surge capacity despite rise in Covid cases in ICU, as Nphet to meet today (irishtimes.com)
ICU is for everyone, not just COVID patients... 75 is a big chunk, even of 290..
Yes, there is surge capacity which can get to 350, but that is at the expense of a lot of other services and treatments...
edit: another thing people gloss over is that ICU beds are graded, tiers 1-3 ... so this subdivision could mean ICU beds are available, but a bed in a tier that will look after you to stop you getting worse or dying, may not be available at the time
What's the real reason for the restrictions then?
Simple question that hasn't been answered in 260 pages.
This we can 100% agree on.
If I was given the task of testing the waters to see if a socialist system would work in the West, and if people would accept it, here’s a few things that would be on my to-do list.
Or it could be a play to get the Great reset up and going, to force through stakeholder capitalism, as mentioned in the WEF. Funnily enough partners include Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Moderna, Facebook, Amazon.....all companies who have benefitted most from this.
Who wants to implement a socialist system, and why? What’s the benefit to the people orchestrating it?
Ok. So you are claiming that the real reasons for the restrictions are that they are part of a plot to test if "socialist system would work in the West".
Is that correct?
If this isn't the case, what point are you trying to make?
The point I'm trying to make is purely that your repeated arguments that there is no possible reason that what's go on could extend beyond Covid isn't true, you keep asking for potential other reasons, I'm just providing a service here, so you can't keep saying nobody has provided alternative reasons.
So the most capitalist of companies want a socialist system? Cause those companies are notorious for wanting to make less money...
Retrofitting to suit your agenda ... yawn ...
Sorry then I should have specified again.
No one has provided a single sane, rational suggestion that has any kind of depth behind it.
Your suggestion is not sane or rational and is not very deep. Likewise the suggested idea that it's all a part of a biblical prophesy is not sane rational or deep.
So yes, people have suggested some ideas, but they tend to be a bit ridiculous and the person stops defending them pretty quick.
Also they are working together with the most capitalist of countries to bring down capitalism to the point that ownership doesn't exist inside of 9 years.
I guess everyone is secretly commies...?
The one major flaw in your hypothesis.
At this stage of the pandemic most people have had close family members get ill, and some pass away, due to the pandemic virus. The benefits of the covid measures are there for all to see, the restriction of the viral movement until we had an acceptable vaccine.
In your socialist dystopia that you elude to, there is no bogeyman that the masses are to be afraid of. There's nothing in your post to suggest why people in democratic counties would accept any of the measures you suggest would happen.
We live in the most connected time in human history. Our means of communication are vast and legion. If a fly farts in Fiji we know about it in Ireland almost immediately. There is absolutely nothing to suggest your hypothesis is either possible or probable.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wa.vanillicon.com/v2/afa86289e513a2013ca0bb778681b4cd.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w8.vanillicon.com/v2/867a9f20e705add43a3ada2e4f4480cc.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/v2/dbba4c22aa1d352d2cdbb076e36aea8c.svg)
