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Child Item

I want my multi-million house back

silver2020

The story of Brendan and Astrid Kelly.

71 year old evicted from his house in Killiney back in 2012.

He lost his latest case for compo https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/couple-who-claim-they-were-wrongfully-removed-from-their-home-lose-damages-appeal-against-bank-40923733.html

You'd almost have pity on him if you read some of the articles or listened to RTE back in 2012.

and then you had Mary Lou McDonald highlight his predicament in the dail, saying that such evictions should not happen (he stopped paying the €2.2m mortgage in early 2009)

Poor Mr Kelly and his Wife. Made homeless by the big bad bank that gave them €2m mortgage which they decided to stop paying.

Poor Mr Kelly who had apartments in Ballsbridge (at least 2) and Ballinteer (at least 2) and several others around Dublin (estimated to be about 20) and over a dozen apartments in Isle of Dogs in London. He was an accountant - who couldn't remember when payments were due.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/evicted-pair-own-13-flats-in-london-1.507165?via=mr good background here

http://bocktherobber.com/2012/04/killiney-eviction/

I sincerely hope that he has to pay every cent of legal costs the state has incurred.

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Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993938#Comment_117993938

I thought they abolished domestic rates and motor tax ( and I think water charges) to buy an election , it worked ..

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994064#Comment_117994064

no it was only motor tax that was abolished to buy the election.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994079#Comment_117994079

Okay - so the property rates ( and water rates outside of Dublin ) weren't a give away ? But motor tax was ?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990551#Comment_117990551

We have a 10bn+ deficit, and a huge debt, and an ageing population, and you think taxes can be cut or abolished!!

I'm sorry to tell you we have to reduce our fiscal deficit, and that will not involve large tax cuts.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994323#Comment_117994323

that's correct.

property tax and water rates were contributing to severe hardship to quite a number and there was no option but to remove them to help struggling people who were finding it impossible to pay.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994381#Comment_117994381

i agree but these aren't tax cuts.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993938#Comment_117993938

nonsense. It was to buy votes, and it worked. The effect on local authority services - from housing, to water, to street cleaning, to libraries, to many other things - was and is disastrous.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993938#Comment_117993938

And what method of local authority funding do you intend to replace it with, precisely?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994698#Comment_117994698

it wasn't to buy votes, there were a serious amount of people struggling under the weight of having to pay those charges.

government chose to under fund them, that is why there was a short fall, it wasn't because of the removal of those unnecessary charges, government could have afforded to pay for those services.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994466#Comment_117994466

No they didn't, the few who paid water rates got them back, majority never paid a penny.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994719#Comment_117994719

It was 100% to buy votes and funding local councils entirely from central government funds is an utterly appalling way to manage funding.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994951#Comment_117994951

it wasn't a vote buying exercise but was leveling up.

funding what are really an unnecessary layer of government from central government is fine given we are a small country and given funding local authorities is a huge burdin for individuals to carry when they are already paying income tax.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995018#Comment_117995018

And how, precisely, do you generate the extra central government income to backfill the significant hole caused by getting rid of property tax?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995037#Comment_117995037

you wouldn't really need a huge amount of money, could be done with a mix of cutting politicians pay and abolishing some quangos.

Rket4000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993938#Comment_117993938

There is no comparison between domestic rates and the current property tax. According to my father, who used to have to pay rates, the current equivalent of domestic rates would be multiple thousands per year as opposed to hundreds of euros which is the case now

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995056#Comment_117995056

How much money do you think the total bill for politicians pay is in Ireland, exactly?

Which quangos do you intend to abolish and where you intend to transfer their responsibilities and actions to and at what cost, exactly?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995066#Comment_117995066

i haven't decided which ones yet, i might do them all or maybe just some.

the various departments can take on the responsibilities.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995122#Comment_117995122

And what costs would there be involved in transferring those role to the departments?

And, again, just how much do you think the total politicians pay bill is in Ireland?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995056#Comment_117995056

Cutting politician's pay 🙄

it wasn't a vote buying exercise but was leveling up.

Moving tax raising from those with wealth to those without could not possibly be less levelling up.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994479#Comment_117994479

Of course they are. But even if they are not, they still fund services and need to be replaced with other taxes, unless you want to pass yet more of the fiscal burden onto our children and grandchildren (who already are being lined up to pay our pensions)

Spanish Eyes

I think SF is going to get a big fright and a huge wake up call when they win the next election, and I think they will.... their time has come.

Cut taxes, houses for all, the rich will pay lol. There aren't enough "rich" people in this country to make a tiny dent in revenue lost from abolishing LPT, not a chance. I also am flummoxed at their policy of abolishing USC, the only tax out there that is impossible to avoid. Best thing that ever happened to our tax code. If they wanted to do anything to help the downtrodden then exempt the first €x of income or something, but imagine allowing the wealthy a free pass also. Bizarre.

SF will have to tell us where they are planning on making up the shortfall from their generous tax reduction policies, while still expecting houses and services for all. It will be very different when they have to balance the books, not like now where they are excellent hurlers on the ditch. Will be a shock I think.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995413#Comment_117995413

well no obviously i wouldn't wish to pass the burden on to peoples grand children or even children, however i believe that too many people are suffering hardship because of these specific charges and i do not wish for this to be the case which is why i wish to remove them so as to help most people, and i believe that we can afford to do it as we are a reasonably wealthy country, even in this current period.

perhapse as a compromise to those in favour of lpt, it could be kept on empty properties and massively raised, that way we all get some bit of what we want.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995132#Comment_117995132

whatever the costs would be, i don't have access to all of the mountains of necessary information to do a comprehensive review sadly, so would e unable to give specific figures.

but i do think over all the costs would be less in the long run as you would require less high level management positions.

pay for politicians in ireland would be a few million at least, more with all of the allowences and expences i should think, i would be surprised if there were no savings to be made anyway.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995686#Comment_117995686

So you've no figures, no information and no clue but make grand statements as if you do

If you cut politicians salaries and expenses to zero it wouldn't make a dent on the loss of LPT income.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tc5koPaJyM&ab_channel=IrishExaminer

The original video, for those who don't remember.

Ubbquittious

Paying every year to live in your own house. What a load of bullsh1t. I really don't get it what is it with people on here and their perma-hardon for property tax. People in real life don't look forward to taxing their car or smile with delight when they see a big chunk of their wages taken off their pay slip but property tax is praised like it's the dog's bollix.

Do people get some warm fuzzy feeling after pulling out their credit card and paying it, like they're part of the club now?

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993938#Comment_117993938

It was an election gimmick.Rates might have been high then but they were used effectively.The sale in 1977 has never been topped by any party since.it was the start of an escalation in the national debt.The current debt of 280 billion + doesn't stop the resident crop in the Dail making promises though.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996216#Comment_117996216

National debt is not like household debt. You never repay most of it.

People on here quote the national debt simply to win an argument but by and large have no idea how the bond markets operate or how national debt is serviced. In their world a man in a bowler hat could knock on the door of the Dail looking for his €250 billion any moment now.

The reality is our debt to GDP is bout 60% which is a very similar figure to Germanys.

We have huge issues in this country and now is the time to spend to fix them. Leaving future generations without access to housing, education and basic utilities will be alot more of a problem than a national debt.

Dempo1

I'm not doubting when some of the facts came to light about the Case OP highlighted, I was quite shocked. But sadly cases such as these, involving couples or indeed individuals with vast and seperate property portfolios take away / deflect from literally 10"s of thousands of ordinary citizens, some who made genuine mistakes, most who found themselves in serious arrears through no fault of theirs and for a host of different reasons.

I do not subscribe to the notion, arrears and repossessions are the reason Irelands mortgage interest rates are the 2nd highest in Europe. Ireland outrageous mortgage interest rates have been extortionate for 40 years, that's just a simple fact.

I was struck to learn last week, 132 repossessions cases listed at one Midlands circuit court were none involved high net worth individuals, all involved families or individuals on the bread line. I can only assume every Circuit court around the country is dealing with similar numbers and probably much higher in larger towns, Cities.

I've no shame in admitting my own challenges, albeit I will say health challenges impacted my Mortgage problems, which I might add were small in comparison to some cases I've read about, my own situation, thankfully almost resolved and I might add, with no hand outs, discounts or costs to anyone but myself. The vulture fund who purchased my mortgage from one of the 3 main banks remaining at a substantial discount obviously incurred administrative costs, but my heart bleeds for them, my case never went legal as such.

I constantly hear the narrative that people just decide not to pay their mortgages, Bury their heads in the sand etc, and whilst I'm absolutely sure this does happen, I'd reckon its a very small percentage that don't engage or pay something, interest only etc. I certainly would not be defending the couple mentioned in the OP. I also should mention, dealing with faceless vulture funds is an absolute nightmare, Ironically despite my genuine efforts and with small arrears, I had to engage Mabs to actually get responses and access to documentation, statements etc. They were shocked by some of the correspondence from the Vulture fund I was dealing with and indeed lack of communication from them and it turns out I wasn't alone in facing challenges dealing with VF"s so I just ask people to be a little more objective in their assumptions. Yes, their are chancer's out there but the vast majority of cases involve quite ordinary decent people trying to save their homes, most making an effort.

Re LPT/Water charges and rural living, I personally had no issue with small water charges, I've always paid for water either by way of a group water scheme and now a well with pump at substantial cost. Rural dwellers see practically zero return from paying LPT, Roads maintenance Alledgedly paid for through motor taxation, Street Lighting (none exists) in villages this is Alledgedly paid through business rates, Sewage/ Waste, I maintain my own septic tank/ water treatments, the list goes on and on. I do pay the smaller band of LPT but won't be happy if it increases.

So, that's my Saturday morning contribution over, I won't be getting into a back and fourth re mortgage repossessions, arrears, just felt it mentioning the other side of this story, which has by no means gone away, I actually believe its going to get worse over the coming year.

riddles

Ireland is a great country to live in but not so much to work in. Which is a) why so many can’t afford to work and b) why so many people who migrate here can’t afford to work.

The affordability of working is a concept people don’t seem to grasp. So our viability as an economy lies in making work more affordable.

The expectation that pensions for someone who works for forty years is now totally unaffordable but unlimited welfare exists for someone with no contributions to the system is totally bizarre.

we are shifting from a ratio of 5-1 taxpayers to 2-1 in about 20 years. What happen then?