Solar in a blackout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992677#Comment_117992677

No battery, don't think my standard Solis inverter will have a plug. Looking at pics online it doesn't appear so.

bullit_dodger

Mentioned previously (sorry can't remember who to give credit), but most inverters or the batteries themselves have an 'emergency' outlet so if you have a battery in your solar installation a cheap-n-cheerful solution would be to run an 20m extension cable from that outlet to the living room and plug in the telly and or router (assuming your load network hub has power but that's another problem for another day)

Depends on how accessible your installation is of course. But might be a lot easier than building an off grid solution? (but it's a lot of more fun to come up with an off-grid solution to be fair)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992463#Comment_117992463

Nice, seems doable. Thanks again

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992518#Comment_117992518

I live on the outskirts of a small town in Galway, defined as urban for electricity prices, but probably have more cows in a 100m radius around the house than people! In the event of a grid supply issue, being able to have a few things running for a few hours would be nice. Same in the event of a fault on the grid. If I do go down this line, part of this would be to satisfy the geek in me, part to have some power in the event of an electricity outage.

Furze99

Depends where you live I guess. In an urban area, unlikely to be lengthy power cuts as even in storms, faults in such areas get fixed first. Living rural you could be waiting days, standard generator is the way to go to get water into the house and charge devices. After that, rechargeable lanterns and solid fuel stove.

I've mounted a good few panels over the years to vertical walls. Take a look at these images. It's crude but works very well. The panels are on hinges so I can change the elevation with the lower arm over the year.

panel1.jpg

panel2.jpg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991997#Comment_117991997

You make it seem so easy! Many thanks for those links. When I searched leisure battery I was getting random things over €1000. Halfords makes more sense.

I am sure I will have a ton more questions, including how to get this past the other half, but very interesting.

Edit: First question! Somebody, possibly bullit_dodger in the solar pv quotes thread, suggested some ideas for garden mounting, and one option would be on a vertical wall. I know, not ideal from a capture stand point, but possibly the only place I could do it. Is there anything specific I would need or could I just grab the cheapest roof mounting rails and use those? Would be looking at mounting to concrete fence pillars.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991878#Comment_117991878

Well, there are loads out there - but a lot seem to be out of stock , especially the batteries. Here is a few items I've used over the years (for pack builds and/or shed/small office setups). They're on the cheaper side so add +- 50% if you want to increase capacity and/or brand name!

You will also need some sundries like MC4 connectors, 12v cable and fuses/busbar. All of the below comes in at around €460. Also, if you have large-ish car and can get to the wholesalers you can pick up a single 300W panel for around €100 +VAT - they tend not to deliver single panels (or at least charge for pallet size) as they're too big for the standard couriers.

B Class Lesiure Battery, walk in off the shelf

https://www.halfords.ie/camping-and-leisure/caravan-and-motorhomes/halfords-leisure-battery-hlb700-682063.html

MPPT Charge controller

https://www.amazon.co.uk/EPEVER-Controller-Automatically-Identifying-Voltage/dp/B0721QNDQD/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3PPDDZRE8MTVC&dchild=1&keywords=epever%2Bmppt%2Bcharge%2Bcontroller&qid=1633685337&sprefix=epever%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-5&th=1

1000W (2000W peak) Inverter

https://de.eco-worthy.com/collections/solar-wechselrichter/products/1000w-12v-solar-wechselrichter-dc-12v-ac-220v

Example of usb charge you can use from the battery

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charge-Charger-Aluminum-Voltmeter-Motorcycle/dp/B07NV7579D/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=fast+charge+12v+usb&qid=1633685463&sr=8-10

100W Panel

https://de.eco-worthy.com/collections/solar-module/products/100w-12v-monokristallines-solarpanel

300W Panel

https://midsummer.ie/buy/Clearance/qcell-325w-mono

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975443#Comment_117975443

Any links/brand names and models for the components for us newbies to this game?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117983908#Comment_117983908

Yeah, that is a good point. That really comes down to the inverter though and for small (relative) current an SLA battery is comparable to any other chemistry regarding max C-rating and/or in rush amp limits.

The Ecoflow's are nice bits of kit but extremely overpriced for what you actually get. However, for most people, the price is easily offset against the hassle of building a pack yourself!

edit: just looking over the Ecoflow spec and although it doesn't say it, it must be using a pure sine wave inverter as it mentions be able to use devices with motors etc. This would bring a "self-build" pack price up a little bit.

MAULBROOK

If you have a Solis inverter their is a backup plug on it, so i just put a single socket on it and during a power failure I just run the extension lead out to it.

Now depending your battery output that is. I'm lucky our setup can output 3.5kw. no problem for coffee makers or a kettle. I could easily run the TV router and sat box for a number of hours, god forbid we have to acutely talk to other members of your family.

Knowing your setup is key to this, you need to understand what it can or cant do.

Many people with solar and a battery have this in place without knowing it. TBF you paid a lot of money for it, why would you not try and learn what it CAN do for you.

NOTE, not all setups are the same and some don't have this facility.

tails_naf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117983456#Comment_117983456

If you allow the backup to power your main fuse board, you have to cut off the supply to the grid, that's the crux. That'd why I'd like a single switch that connects in the backup supply while at the same time disconnecting the grid (and inverter primary output). This would allow the fuse board to supply the house but also make it safe to someone working on the grid. If there was a switch like a double pole double throw, capable of handling grid current it would be ideal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980394#Comment_117980394

This.

Part of the reason I picked the Ecoflow unit which I did is that it has a 'draw limit' sufficiently high that it will run some more power-hungry items at the same time. It's not just a matter of how many kWh the battery stores, but whether it can provide that power quickly enough to meet devices which use electricity more rapidly. You can imagine that charging your iPhone will take far less of a draw than running my American-sized fridge-freezer. Most camping batteries will have multiple power sockets, but are not expected to run major appliances, so if I want to run, say, my main fridge-freezer, the deep freezer, the fish tank and charge my 'phone all at once, with the high draw limit I can do it with the unit I have (Using 50' extension cables, granted), although, of course, for less time than running just the one item.

Plus, of course, I can use it for other things. It's in the garage right now, powering my tyre inflator.

randombar

So I've a back up cable coming back into my main fuse board.

My understanding is that, that is essentially wired into the fuse board and I can switch over to that when the power goes, but I would have to disable a few CBs if I don't want that power going to every device / plug ?

bullit_dodger

Anyone got any recommendations for some UPS boxes? Thinking of maybe ~1.0 Kwhr or there abouts for the telly.

Thanks.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976001#Comment_117976001

It depends on the inverter, but some of them have a system called anti islanding built in. Or it can be installed separately

Basically if it detects any unusual behaviour from the grid, it'll isolate the house from the grid. So the solar and batteries (or generator) can continue operating

It's very similar in function to an automated transfer switch you'd have with a backup generator

Here's an example of one system

https://www.victronenergy.com/accessories/anti-islanding-box-63a

garo

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001083766967.html

LifePO4 is safer than 18650. Also cheaper. The set about was 1275 last week. 10.24kWh.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980121#Comment_117980121

Technically that will work, but do not do it!

I have the battery pack as a stand-alone unit. When the power goes I roll in the pack and just unplug the devices I need (from the mains) and plug them into the inverter sockets on the pack. I have a few low power (~7W) lamps that I can plug in around the place too. So bare minimum I can light the house and keep the kids occupied with phone/Switch/YouTube etc. while herself can gander at Netflix etc on the tablet. It's not a full drop in replacement but it definitely helps

Nutzfahrzeuge

Sorry for asking a dumb question - but how do you get an Ecoflow to power your house during a black out? Presume you cant just plug it into a socket and it works in "reverse" ?

Coincidently we just had an unscheduled power cut here from 10am until 14:00 - happy I had that battery and kit in place. Broadband, wireless, laptops all working. Hope this isn't the start of things to come this winter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977695#Comment_117977695

I am not familiar with the Ecoflow. I just took a look and the battery chemistry is different to that battery I have. As it's lithium if will have a better depth of discharge, closer to 0% (but I'm not getting into that argument !), where as most LA batteries shouldn't really drop below 50%. Also, the weight difference is huge. Still, for what I need the AGM's are perfect.

I see the Ecoflow is just 18650 cells. If you were anyway handy you could make a pack with new (or used) 18650's, a BMS, inverter and the sockets/ports for an awful lot less that what they're advertised as. The do look handy though!

Capt'n Midnight

Germany had a partial eclipse a few years ago where 15GW of solar dropped off the grid for a few minutes and it was managed.

Have a plan B. Grid outages aren't normally long and your phone has a light build in. Work out what else you need over short time scales. My parents got a bottled gas cooker as a backup for cooking, could have been used for boiling water if needed.

Longer time scales would require you to have more backup. Go read a book.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977225#Comment_117977225

Still a good deal. Amazon's showing the Ecoflow at $1,100 right now, that's just 1.2.

Soz, at Amazon.

sozbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975008#Comment_117975008

Where did you buy yours if you don’t mind me asking?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976476#Comment_117976476

the two together are 2.4kWh, not 2.4 each!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976001#Comment_117976001

In fairness, VinLieger's specifically asking about 'if he has power stored'.

I don't know if there's any specific regulation on the matter in Ireland, but around here, systems with storage systems will switch to drawing from the storage system during an outage, though systems without storage (mine included) will cease solar production for the exact reasons you give. I don't know if the panels will recharge the storage during an outage, however (i.e. if, for safety, they can draw from the battery, but not produce for anything).

"All this was around 550 euro and should do me for most of the rest of my life. 🤣"

How the hell did you find 4.8kWh of battery for EUR550?

bullit_dodger

The reason (briefly) is that the wiring is a two way circuit. When you house needs power you take it from the grid, when you have excess you can give it out.

Problem with a powercut/blackout, is that your inverter doesn't know if the grid is down for a deliberate outage, or the electricity cable down the road knocked down by a tree. So for the tree issue, ESB "power down" that area so the electricians can go work out and safely work on the fault. If in the meantime, you are quiet happily chucking 220v out into the wild, while ESB have turned off their side, your about to give some poor electrician a bad day.

So when inverters detect no grid voltage, for safety reasons they will go inoperative. Now in theory you could safely set one up that it can work in an outage, but it requires creating separate isolated circuits in your house. Most people, unless you have some skill in the area should avoid. I know enough, to know enough that it's not worth it for me.

VinLieger

Just stumbled across this thread as ive begun to look into solar and storage as im guessing have many with the potential blackouts we may have going forward during winters. But this sounds like it makes the whole thing a bit pointless if during a blackout your system also automatically stops even if you have power stored? What is the reason for this and is it likely to change?

I grabbed two 100aHr (2.4 kwhr) lesiuire batteries (400 cycles AGM) for around 130euro each, a 1000W pure sine wave inverter, a mppt charge controller and 300W panel. This easily keeps the house going with broadband , access point, lights and tablets for longer than any outage we've had.

All this was around 550 euro and should do me for most of the rest of my life. 🤣

I've a fire man on my ground array and can't think of an easy way around it either!