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How do you characterize an "alpha male"?

[Deleted User]

I was having this conversation with some of my bro's earlier.

I guess there's a variety of means to do so.

Like, a leader?

Thinking of Dublin city currently, a dude has the competency, insights, environmental awareness and people skills to come onto the scene, understand what needs to get done, manage the various sub-authority figures to implement suitable strategy relative to their respective divisions - oversee the entire operation making adjustments on spec as needed;

i.e. ultimately amongst all the buffoonery, ass-backwards f**kery and incompetency, make the situation correct, improving the environment, lifestyle framework and quality of life - even for those who would complain bitterly about said changes (perhaps even oppose them), but obviously reap the benefits once they come into effect.

.......

On a more day to day level, I guess an exact definition is more elusive.

There has certainly been the thinking that the "alpha male" is considered the biggest, most masculine looking brute.

Thinking of gyms (which are die-hard alpha male hotbeds), this isn't terribly far from the truth.

Often times size and power can be coupled with a potential for violence basically, and willingness to engage.

Seeing some of the bears vying for position as top dog can be an ugly sight.

.....

Anyways no doubt there's many different perspectives out there on how one may or may not define this... ?

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[Deleted User]

[Deleted User]

https://youtu.be/zeUVKAQsXyc?t=89

Jack Nicholson knew, back in the day.

It's like, humanities problems solved in one sentence.

Food, clothing, housing and transport issues - all = effortless.

I mean if that's not alpha, what is?

.....

I heard Joe Rogan talking about this also, his contention being the only way for this to be possible would be if they lacked sex organs.

😆

screamer

Sometimes it’s just the one with the biggest mouth or loudest voice. The alpha of a group very much depends on the group composition.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961183#Comment_117961183

Yasss.

That's what I'm saying, relative to a "locale".

Doesn't mean dick.

Some stupid motherfucker thinks he/she's boss cause they're a broken clock which tells time right twice a day.

Point being therefore, what is the overarching definition of "alphalpha"?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961208#Comment_117961208

The definition is quite clear cut - a man tending to assume a dominant or domineering role in social or professional situations.

This will vary by group and situation. An alpha in one group or situation may not be the alpha when in a different group or situation.

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this, to be honest.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961231#Comment_117961231

"Domineering".

Such an ugly term.

But does it always mean, competent?

Does it always render the optimal outcome?

If not, well, I would say it's not very "alpha" in that case.

Probably closer to the definition of an exploitationist.

Quantum Erasure

i thought it was all about lean sigma males these days...

Seeing some of the bears vying for position as top dog can be an ugly site.

yes, quite

[Deleted User]

Depends whether you're a Chad or a Zach. Devolution in action, chest thumping primates. The expression "alpha male" applied to the human race is the preserve of an underdeveloped mind.

Capt'n Midnight

Alpha male. The leader of the wolf pack. Which is a family in the biological sense too.

So the alpha male is related to the others and is likely to be the father or brother of them. It's nothing more than the traditional respect for the head of the family.

Nowadays we have social security so those who don't tug the forelock won't starve to death.

[Deleted User]

Always seemed like a useless and meaningless term to me. And highly subjective. Not to mention it is based on misconceptions about the hierarchies in pack animals like wolves where in fact even there the concept is nebulous and quite false. And of course since humans are not pack animals in that sense either - it becomes even more useless.

Subjective labels tend to be a bit useless too in that you tend to apply them retrospectively. A label like "car" for example if given to you before you enter a room - will pretty much tell you with a lot of accuracy what you can expect to find in that room. The label can precede the encounter and tell you much about what you will find there.

But a phrase like "alpha male" tends to be more retrospective. People see the "male" first and then decide retrospectively if the label applies. And they will not do this consistently between or even within individuals. Before walking into a room with the label "Alpha Male" I suspect your expectations of who or what you will encounter in that room will be a lot less accurate than something like "car".

But an issue here is one that occurs even without the word "Alpha". For example over the years on threads around this forum I have heard phrases like "man up" "be a real man" "male role model" and I have asked what it even means to be a "man" in that sense. What is a real man? How does one "man up"? How does one role model "maleness"?

Consistently people have either been unable to give any answer at all - or they have merely listed attributes one should tend to maximize without realizing that the same attributes apply just as much to women or any individual really. There is even one user of this forum who was not sure he could call certain "men" a "man" for no other reason than their sexual proclivities differed from his own. Talk about making up your own definition of words to suit yourself!

So this concept of "being a man" is so nebulous and ill defined that more specific sub definitions of it like "alpha man" are starting on ground so shaky they are doomed to failure. If no one can even tell you what "being a man" even means - how are they likely to tell us what being a specific sub type of "man" is going to mean?

There are many attributes I try to maximize in myself. Some I do successfully. Some less so. And they make me feel like a better person when I do it. I can not think of a single one of them that make me feel like a "man" specifically or more of a "man". They are all entirely gender independent and I try to maximize them equally in my children too - the boys and the girls.

[Deleted User]

Alright well, I guess they're an expected enough range of viewpoints on the historical thoughts behind the characterization.

Well observed has been it can vary dramatically from one situation to the next.

i.e. say in a university faculty, the foremost researcher may well be considered the "alpha" amongst his peers;

But put that same individual on O'Connell St at 2 am on Friday night, amongst the local degenerates, his "alpha" standing won't be worth too much.

....

But does no one get a sense there's a deeper meaning,

i.e. a historical human challenging situation that transcends all other environmental demands and therefore, renders an infallible competency irrespective of said environments?

That if one exhibits the epitome of competency in this realm = they can handle themselves optimally.... any time.... any place... etc.

....

Anyone?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961533#Comment_117961533

This. A wolf "pack" is basically a family, ma da and the kids. When the kids grow up they generally move away and start their own family. Their family setup is very similar to ours* and one reason why we were a good fit as mutually advantageous partners. Domestication kept dogs in a juvenile state, so they never grow up unlike wolves. The alpha business came about because of bad research on adolescent animals in captivity, research that the original scientists have disavowed.

The more recent alpha male stuff grew out of US culture based "pickup artist" stuff, where they tried to lend some BroScence credence to their musings. Many in that PUA culture seem to be on the spectrum so labels and the BroScience got ever more layered and faux complex, alpha, beta, sigma etc, in an attempt to navigate often very basic human interactions and to figure out the steps and cheat codes that would get them women the way the "chads" do. AKA a lot of me bollix. Similar can be seen in other BroScience stuff like paleo diets and the like. A kernel of truth(and usually obvious truth) dressed up in an unnecessarily complex system. Socially aware and outgoing men with their lives together tend to attract more women than socailly awkward and reserved men with their lives on hold. Well I never. In other news, water is wet.

*which is quite unlike any other great apes. In "the wild" humans also go around in territorially bounded extended family "packs", though over time modern humans had the capacity to grow bigger and bigger social connections and groups.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961873#Comment_117961873

Bro, do you not have some watches and timepieces you need to potter about with?

For real, can you stop following me around boards.ie?

Seriously, it's getting weird at this point.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962295#Comment_117962295

Maybe ease up on the egocentric stuff "Bro". Nobody's following you around.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962401#Comment_117962401

Cool, but please don't feel compelled to post in my threads or engage with me in any way in future (or try and avoid doing so within the best of your ability).

I just get a weird vibe.

No reply necessary, I'll accept silence as acknowledgement.

Wibbs

You get a "weird vibe"? 🤣 I hate to break it to you but it's a public forum, it's not your thread, we don't get to decide who replies, only the content of our replies. That's how it works. I didn't even reply to you in my first post. TBH I doubt I'd ever reply to one of your posts as frankly they come across as just too odd. Oh and if you're aiming for this "alpha" status stuff getting upset by replies while looking for a blog type echo chamber is hardly the way to go about it.

Gregor Samsa

The only people who concern themselves with identifying Alpha males are soy-boy Beta cucks. The rest of us just get on with life.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963031#Comment_117963031

...

I DO ALPHA MALE **** t-shirt War Machine.jpg

Mad_maxx

Someone like Clint Eastwood or Sean Connery

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963408#Comment_117963408

Hmmm, probably closest to the ideal definition of any mention.

Taking "control" in a group situation... given groups are typically full of jackals.

That would insinuate there's strength in the face of underhandedness, bitchiness.

I think that's an often overlooked part of being an (ideal) alpha, being able to get down in the dirt with the snakes and backstabbers and show them.... you know..... what time it is.

Given Dublin is full with street crawling cock-a-roaches, it would suggest the Dail lacks an alpha of this particular denomination.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962890#Comment_117962890

lol, what part of "no response was necessary" did you have difficulty understanding?

Your watches and timepieces are calling you from your moms basement playboy.

More time tinkering with them, less time stalking me on boards = good mmmkay?

Richard Hillman

People are looking towards the wolf as an example of the alpha male. We are more in line with primates. The chief gorilla. If another male impedes on our territory, we will get very pissy.

Between groups of men there are always the competition of being the alpha male. This isn't done by bulking up or chest thumping, it is done in spoken word of put downs and "the bantz" with the lads. Ultimately you become the alpha male of your group of friends by taking the piss out of your mates and being the greatest at ripping your friends. It's a subtle form of ascendancy to becoming the alpha male.

It think this is why men are better at forming lifelong friendships, as opposed to women. These constant put-downs are the competition that keeps the pack strong (maybe a bit of wolf related activity there). Primates, Lions etc playfight and ultimately form the societal hierarchy. In human men, the play fighting are the words we use.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117969237#Comment_117969237

"Banter" and put downs, I guess it's like that around some spineless males?

It's definitely not like that around a dude that would knock another dude the fuck out for insulting him, under the guise of "banter" or otherwise.

The potential for violence definitely trumps bitch talk when it comes to establishing dominance.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961331#Comment_117961331

I wonder where manlets fit in on the spectrum?

Poor bastards.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117969237#Comment_117969237

People are looking towards the wolf as an example of the alpha male. We are more in line with primates.

We're really not RH. We are quite different in social(and reproductive) setup compared to the other great apes. We're also more adaptable and generalists with it. That we are so different has long been of some puzzlement to researchers as to why(and when) these quite fundemental changes happened. At some point in our evolution we diverged from the social setups of the other great apes.

growleaves

Do wolves and gorillas sit around and discuss their similarities with humans?