It matters when they bring Western hating 'culture ' with them from the dumps they came from
18% born outside Ireland does not mean that they're not irish.
And even if 18% or 30% or 40% of people living here were born outside Ireland, what does that matter?
Using your stats, 14% of the UK population was born outside the UK. The Irish figure you give isn't the equivalent, you need to use the same stat, percentage born outside Ireland, which is 18% born outside of Ireland.
You ask what mass immigration Ireland has had, the figure for immigration proves what mass immigration Ireland has had, this is self explanatory.
Where are you getting that from? We clearly don’t. I was talking about mass immigration, what mass immigration has Ireland experienced in the last 50 years? Your point that we have a higher immigrant population (I’m guessing you mean as a proportion of the general population?) than other countries, isn’t borne out by evidence. If we were just to compare statistics between Ireland and our nearest continental neighbours the UK, the percentage of immigrants as a percentage of the population is still higher than Ireland -
UK:
Ireland:
Here’s a handy graphical representation of immigration to Ireland and where they’re coming from in 2016 published by the ESRI -
The sources for the UK and Ireland stats -
So?
"Ireland hasn’t the history nor politics of other European countries for starters, and we’re not likely to see any sort of mass immigration effect like other European countries have seen in the same period of the last 50 years."
This is simply not true, we have a higher immigrant population than practically every other European country
From that article on Brussels:
These trends are occurring Western countries. For example, France’s native population has been following and could become a minority within the next decades, which holds true for Norway as well.
The diversity of origin within the population living in Belgium is increasing because 10 years ago, in 2010, the share of Belgians of Belgian origin was 74.3 percent, that of Belgians of foreign origin 15.5 percent and that of non-Belgians 10.2 percent.
The proportion of Belgians of Belgian origin also increases with age. In Belgium, it reaches 54.3 percent among 0-17 year olds, 66.3 among 18-64 year olds and 87.3 among over 65s.
could not care less, and do not understand why it matters?
They are all people, who cares if they can trace their ancestors back for hundreds of years or if they have decided to make Dublin their home?
Because its the capital of Belgium...home of the Belgian people
Would you be happy if it happened in Dublin....which if anything I've seen in the last few years we're well under way
Don't be ridiculous!!
Brussels is the capital of Europe, most foreign born people living there are working there in various European institutions.
why would that be sad?
Also, many non EU persons living there are as a result of Belgium's colonial past, you cant expect to go around taking over countries and not think those citizens will come to the country!
Only 5 deported so far this year . I fail to understand the excuse they cannot deport migrants because of covid . The rates in African countries and Pakistan are much lower . You quote one example of an asylum seeker who was deported not because of a crime , perhaps he was one of the 5 ! I assume you have seen how difficult it is to even deport IS sympathisers and operatives .
Deportation orders are very different from actual deportations .
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/five-deportation-orders-issued-so-far-in-2021-compared-to-883-in-2020-data-1.4559659
I think it’s a bit more discretionary than simply whether or not asylum seekers have committed a serious criminal offence; the Mr. X case I posted earlier being a good example-
He failed to be granted refugee status, was denied leave to remain, and his appeal against a deportation order subsequently failed -
Similar story in the UK:
You should be ashamed for asking such questions.
Anyone else find this a bit sad
https://rmx.news/article/belgians-are-now-a-minority-in-their-own-capital-of-brussels/#:~:text=For%20the%20first%20time%2C%20Belgians,from%20the%20country's%20statistics%20office.
They appeal they get to stay if they have not committed a serious crime .
Yes, under the present regime, the US will be definitely off the reconstruction list, and for the reasons you have mentioned. Which begs the question just who will come up with the cash to pay for it.. Saudi Arabia? Turkey? Russia? Iran? ( possibly, but they are dianmetrically opposed to each other, Shia V Sunni? China? Will be interesting to see how that will work out.Russia has a stranglehold on the regime, so they will have say a too. Of course, for the recovery of the Country, the return of the professional's is essential. But no matter what the EU says about returning them, first because in many instances they are filling essential vacancies in their host countrys, and secondly, is it even possible for them to return, at least while the present regime is in power? As a matter of fact, I'd say that Syrians working abroad and sending cash back home, is the only way their families can survive... much like Ireland in bygone years.
One of the reasons mass immigration leads to ghettoisation is because immigrants are generally aware that they’re not welcome in the countries they immigrate to. Like anyone in that situation they’re going to seek out their own people for safety and support. The reason multiculturalism has been a dismal failure in other European countries is simply because politicians on the one hand were desperate to portray themselves among the international community as humanitarians, while also trying to appease the electorate who vote for them. Therein lies the contradiction.
Ireland hasn’t the history nor politics of other European countries for starters, and we’re not likely to see any sort of mass immigration effect like other European countries have seen in the same period of the last 50 years. The current system in Ireland though, is failing everyone. And it’s not failing because of any number of immigrants trying to game the system. It’s failing because the State just isn’t getting value for money for what it’s spending on trying to control immigration.
I’m not suggesting any sort of Utopian Star Trek ideal though at all, I just don’t see any reason to treat people any different than I would anyone else is all, regardless of where they’re from. It’s true I haven’t travelled to other countries like other posters here who have witnessed and experienced people being subjected to all sorts of inhumane treatment, which has obviously coloured their beliefs about people from those countries, but for me that means that I don’t have the same biases as they do and I’m not inclined to prejudge people as being guilty of any malice on the basis of their ethnic or cultural background. It’s like when Dara O’ Brian was asked why doesn’t he make jokes about Muslims -
I don’t know the first fcuking thing about Muslims either! I’m the same about Hindus -
Ireland already deports plenty of illegal immigrants, and to present it as though both issues can’t be addressed at the same time is just being dishonest. You’re smart enough to know that one issue has no bearing on the other, which is why I just don’t believe that you think that failing to deport immigrants without a right to appeal the decision or seeking to accommodate immigrants is denying anyone else accommodation or housing. Everyone in need of housing is assessed using the same criteria on the basis of need, and either they’re eligible for accommodation, or they’re not. Bogus asylum seekers aren’t eligible for accommodation, they’re deported, and even what appear to be legitimate migrants applications are thoroughly investigated when they apply for a visa. By the way you’re talking you’d swear Ireland were only too happy to welcome every Tom, Dick and Harry to Ireland. That couldn’t be further from reality, and the process of deportation takes however long it takes depending upon the circumstances in each and every case -
I hate thinking it, I feel even worse saying it out loud, but it really does feel like some people are opposed to immigrants coming into the country purely out of spite, or just to break their balls. I don’t believe for a minute they imagine Muslims are generally fundamentalist fcukwits, as though they need people to ignore the reality of the thousands of Muslims or immigrants who live in other European countries who are only trying to get by, and trying to present extremists as the norm, and they try to paint Irish society as a homogeneous identity, as though it’s actually so simple. If it were, would we even be having this conversation? Clearly there are plenty of Irish people who have a different set of values than the minority who claim that Muslims are a threat to Irish society.
It smacks of insecurity tbh to argue that any group are threat to the value of their own cultural, national or ethnic identity, and I’m not surprised that historically speaking it’s always come from leftists who argue for change for what appears to be just for the hell of it and don’t know what to do with themselves next, as has happened in other European countries, but Irish society has traditionally been a conservative society, which is why immigrants coming from conservative societies tend to fit in here better than they do in other European countries. We share similar values in common.
To be honest with you I don’t make the same distinction you do, that’s why I refer to anyone coming into the country as an immigrant, they’re a migrant from their own country. I do take your point though that migrants who aren’t seeking asylum will have applied for visas before they leave their own country, and when their visa expires they have to leave this country. Some immigrants try and stay in the country indefinitely by seeking asylum.
TBH, If I was the Syrian regime, I would exclude the US entirely as well. Even apart from the US being an outspoken enemy of the Syrian regime, they are too closely linked to Israel which is a strategic enemy of Syria - and indeed all surrounding Arab states. Whatever money the US would promise would be linked to demands aimed to destabilise or weaken the Syrian regime to further the interests of their Israeli ally. If I was Assad, dealing with a US regime that up until a few months ago dreamt of seeing me and my family facing the same fate as Gaddafi, I'd not trust them to tell me what day of the week it was.
Where I think the EU could have a different mindset is that despite the empty headed Merkel rhetoric, the EU acknowledges the Syrian doctors/scientists/engineers have outstayed their welcome. It is a realpolitik objective - and realpolitik tends to be a language dictatorships can understand, trust and work with.
People who argue against multiculturalism are pointing out that mass migration inevitably leads to ghettoisation, regardless of government policies. Both the indigenous people and the migrant people flee diversity, preferring to live in their own communities. And when multiculturalism fails, it is the indigenous people who are berated, blamed and punished for the wholly inescapable failure of mass migration.
All across the Europe and indeed the US, ethnic and racial enclaves form despite all the efforts of the various European and US policies to force integration. You're selling a utopian pipe dream that a Star Trek type future is just one more policy initiative away, whereas the grim reality of policy failure in the face of mass migration has already been played out in multiple countries now facing centuries of mayhem. Why should Ireland do any better than our European neighbours who are far more experienced - through failure - with mass migration?
If the current system is failing it is because it is dodging the reality that the vast, vast, vast majority of asylum seekers and illegal migrants are trying to game the system. The answer is to quickly evaluate and deport them - not to deprive Irish people of housing.
Say a war broke out here, ourselves and The Brits, they invade, persecution is rife, if that’s the case wed go to the first safe place. Apply for asylum.
Kabul for example is approximately 8100 kilometers away from Dublin.
While New York is approximately 5100 kilometers away from Dublin. That’s a perspective of the distance travelled.
We are just about the most western outlying EU state, further in time and kilometers from Afghanistan then anywhere else in the EU...
that leads you to believe that safety while is a consideration, other factors lead these people to make such an effort to get in here, seeking ‘asylum’
Asylum : the ‘protection’ granted by a state to someone who has left their home country as a refugee...asylum is protecting people, if people want protecting, bypassing every other EU country is a bit odd..
Asylum seekers are not migrants, migrants apply for visas prior to travelling to Ireland.
Obviously I'm well aware that the likes of RTE deliberately call Asylum seekers migrants, they were at it this evening re_, the polish Belarus border dispute
To be honest it will likely cost the State just as much as the current Government are spending already. It’s just rearranging the deckchairs because nobody is satisfied with the current system that just isn’t fit for purpose.
The aim is for greater integration and participation of immigrants in Irish society, something which people who are arguing against multiculturalism have pointed out is one of the main issues they have with immigration policies - that they allow for ghettoisation as opposed to integration.
What'll it cost if Roderick gets his way and all asylum seekers get the keys to their own pad within 4 months of arriving?!! As more and more countries in Europe say thanks but no thanks, paddy is rolling out the red carpet!
Do you have some knowledge of who they are planning on allowing to stay?
Why would you possibly think that it is failed asylum seekers?
Yes, this is shocking.
Not alone do we often let bogus AS stay here, by giving them leave-to-remain, after their application has failed, but now we intend to reward them.
You couldn't make it up!!
I'd love if DP cost 1.3m per month.
It actually costs 15m+ per month.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40238120.html
Well the result would be interesting !!
The logic might sound good but in practice its another story . Really once you get in you can most likely stay just provide a good story .
All able bodied Syrian males, who deliberately left Syria to avoid being conscripted or otherwise being caught up in the war, are for the most part unable to return,,For their families, women kids etc. Its different,,they have very strong family and clan system, so these returnees will be looked after. And what would the regime gain by harming them? No, the last thing they want now is the backlash ( and worse ) that harming these families would generate, and thats on the home ground, Imagine the international outrage?? Syria is still a "hot" country, and in many areas, there has been outbreaks of fighting, especially where the regime has not lived up to its agreements. But for the able bodied menfolk its a far different story.....I have friends who tell me that its possible, upon payment of quite large amount's of cash, but none of them are prepared to take the chance. They know only too well what the regime are capable of.
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