Maybe the block was taken from the pumphouse earlier, I mean weeks or months,
as part of the ongoing feud about the gate being open/closed.
It could have been used to keep the gate open as a message to Sophie, and ruining her pumphouse into the bargain.
Which could have been her reason to travel, fearing a confrontation she asked for company on the trip.
There appeared to have been plenty other rocks and blocks around there.
Somebody who was planning a murder and it would only have been one block. But then, who says the murder was planned? And if he didn't drive he hiked, but he must have known that something was there which could be picked up and used to kill Sophie.
Which statements are you referring to?
Maybe it was kept on top of the pump house felt roof to stop it blowing off.
The whole cavity block angle is bizarre unless it had been moved already for innocuous reasons to the gate.
Or, who would be going around with cavity blocks in their vehicle? But you'd think even the keystone cops would spot tracks of a work truck.
I wouldn't assume anything which isn't proven. If he came by car that it's not that impossible. If I or you or anybody else here in this forum would have done it, how would we have done it? What would we make sure that was there, close by, that could be the murder weapon?
Looking at the block and the blood all over, it looks as if the murderer had at least his hands full of blood. The question would be where did he wash his hands then? All the things we don't know.
Thanks, hadn't seen that picture before, the other picture makes it look like a solid block. It's pretty certain it came from the gap in the pumphouse wall then.
I think we can be fairly confident that the murderer didn’t take the block with him.
It would seem likely that the murderer took the block very close from the murder scene, quite possibly from that pump house. It could however also be possible that the murderer brought the block with him, to make sure, he had the right one, and doesn't have to look around too long. We don't really know that one.
No, the block used in the attack was a cavity block;
Pumphouse;
Yes, the block that was used in the murder was a solid block, whereas the blocks used in the construction of the pumphouse were cavity blocks. But you can see bits of solid blocks behind the gate in the crime scene photo a few posts back. So there were some solid blocks around.
Like I said, I suspect the "weapon" block may have been sitting on top of the pump house. It appears to have had no mortar or moss on it so it wasn't lying in a ditch. It's hard to say where exactly it came from with so few pictures of the scene at the time available. But I'd be certain the block wasn't brought to the scene from elsewhere, I just can't think of any reason why someone would choose to bring a block.
You appear to have complete faith in Alfie and Shirley as reliable witnesses but how do you square that with contradictory statements from Ian Bailey where he would have had no benefit from saying what he did in early questioning?
Someone posted a couple a pages back... seemed to be moderate wind, dry, not frosty. Neither one thing nor the other.
"For the record the weather for Cork that night was temp 3-4C, wind speed 20 to 25 mph and from the East/N East not a gale."
tagged: weather_duplantier
Makes sense. The thought I've had is that the block as a murder weapon doesn't appear to be a cavity block? ( It's hard to see in the picture ) The blocks at the pump house seem to be cavity blocks, hence my speculation.
I think it's preposterous to think the killer brought the block with them. Why would they? It can't be used as the primary weapon, too big and cumbersome. So they would have to have planned to subdue/knock out/kill the person with another weapon and then have planned to use the block to deal the final blow. That just doesn't make any sense at all.
There were lots of blocks and bits of blocks in the immediate vicinity of the murder, the block came from there somewhere. I suspect that it may have even been on top of the felt/timber roof of the pump house, being used as a weight to keep it in place. Hence why it had no mortar on it.
I don't say you can't be believed but your notes are no more use than people here "saying someone read someone remembered" etc. you seem to think you are in some way superior to others here. 4.5 months unless very end of jan
Eh, just to clarify, you're the one that started quoting my posts, I didnt "tag" you as you like to put it, unless you think the mere mention of Alfie's or shirleys name means someone is tagging you now. Have no interest in engaging with you. And for one talking about abuse & snarky comments, you're well able to dish it out yourself so maybe take a look in the mirror.
What were the weather conditions on the night of the 23rd? Wet and windy or cold and frosty? As regards hearing no screams, well, perhaps she just did not scream or even call for help. That would be credible if she were running for her life and concentrating on escaping or if she felt that Foster and Lyons would not hear her in any event or if she was struck and stunned into submission. The next nearest dwelling was half a mile down the road. This would lend credence to the theory that she left the house and walked down the drive toward the gate where her killer was waiting. He did not first call to the door although he may gone up to the house after killing her. She must have known this particular individual at least fairly well and sensed no particular threat or danger in interacting with him late at night, in extreme isolation and wearing only nightclothes.
.
If something significant happened now and it related to something seemingly insignificant at the time, that happened 3 months ago, that I might be asked to recall, a little time spent thinking back and making notes would help.
Like I said, if a few more potential witnesses did the same, maybe we would not be here now.
Which, by the way had no mortar attached.
Well that's the kibosh on the paramilitary hitman theory....
I'd say the block had a size that even a man couldn't have hit somebody effectively by only using one hand. I'd suggest the killer must have used both hands to hold the block and use it "effectively". By that time Sophie must have either been unconscious or somebody else was holding her down?
Is it known if the block is from that site? Are there similar blocks in the area? If no, than it's possible the killer brought the block along with him.
I think that's their business.
That may well have been that block that held the gate open at the time Bannasidhe was there.
But the block used in the attack was a full sized 17 ins block;
This is the pump house that the block supposedly came from;
The block taken from this corner took the mortar with it ,
notice the clean face of the blocks underneath .
If the block that was used in the attack came from the pumphouse at that time it meant the attacker walked back up to the pumphouse
lifted the felt roof and timber frame from the walls, removed the block which was cemented into the wall and returned to continue the assault.
Why do that with all the loose blocks and rocks around?
No idea. It was a block I pushed with my foot to stop the gate swinging. I could have leant by the gate but the space was tight due to overgrowth. Nettles.
If you are going to case doubt please at least get your facts right.
The party was the very end of August - I did say Shirley was a teacher in the UK, their summer holidays don't start until July. I made my notes in Jan. 5 months. BTW, there were other people involved in that conversation about Sophie's house. Not one remembers IB acknowledging he knew or or being particularly interested in talking about her.
But sure I can't be believed yet we can have pages and pages of discussion on 'someone read that someone remembered this and told someone else 20 years later' and 'I read somewhere that I'm not going to mention that this person said this thing and this other person got arrested for jam smuggling'. Not to mention the 'my auntie lives in the next townland and although she was never at either Alfie's or Sophie's says it's not that hard to find. Especially after details of how to get there have been discussed for decades.'
Bannasidhe's notes are from months after and at post 6962 she says re IB If I ever knew his name I had forgotten it
If I ever knew his name I had forgotten it
Make notes of something that happened in June
where did your source see the statements?
3/4 of a single concrete block, i
Perhaps it was this one
I don't know what block was used to kill Sophie, the block I shoved over to hold that gate open was about 3/4 of a single concrete block, if you know what I mean. Just shoved it along, and shoved it back.
Actually, day of Shirley's party the gate was closed and Sophie wasn't there.
I think it was a case of Alfie couldn't be bothered closing the gate when he was going out so left it open. Depending on the weather when he got home he might or might not close the gate. Remember Alfie was in and out everyday and not feeling physically great. Sophie was there occasionally.
I admit I would have done the same as Alfie. If it was raining and I was popping to Scull I'd say f the gate.
Thanks for the info Bannasidhe. I'd imagine it would be a lot easier to lift a block like that than move it with your foot but that could be just me. Perhaps the heavy block im thinking of that killed Sophie was not the same type of block that was used to keep the gate open. Did you ever have to open the gate and put the block in place on visits there yourself?
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