...to confront, on her own, some (likely) male stranger? She would have been incredibly brave or foolhardy in that case. Anyway, had the intrusions not ceased long before after the locks were changed? She was just in the habit of spending periods alone in the house.The fact that this was Christmastime might seem odd to some but to me it is insignificant, especially when she was experiencing domestic difficulties. Maybe she just wanted to clear her head. It seems unlikely, also, that she was expecting somebody to call or had a meeting pre-arranged. She was dressed in night attire so was probably preparing to go to bed unless waiting for a lover but that seems implausible. So the killer arrived out of the blue, uninvited, I think it's fair to assume. The question is, was it somebody she already knew?
thats interesting, I didn’t know about the overlap between PIs and the guards in this country.
the details emerging about Sarah Everard today having being ‘arrested’ prior to her murder are further proof about characteristics of many members of law enforcement across the world.
That's a very good point. I always thought that there was something wrong with Alfie and Shirley, especially as they stated that they didn't hear anything during the night of the murder. It's beyond imagination that this murder would have been totally silent, if Sophie was really running for her life. That is, if the murder site is really also the murder site, as we have gotten to know it.
A quick google would suggest it's a hybrid system. There are 'no-fault' divorces but also contested divorces where the use of a PI to reveal infidelity would likely serve as an advantage in the division of assets. Not even going to pretend to be an amateur expert in divorce law in France, but that's my initial reading.
The back door had no damage to it, You would think if someone was trying to break in, the door would have damage to it. Whoever was out there gave Sophie enough fear to think it was best to try and flee the house rather than ring the guards or try to make it to her car or stand your ground. Make you wonder who was out there ?.
Alfie Lyons passed away earlier this year and Shirley has sold the house where they lived. I can understand that as she must have been living in fear of the killer returning for the last 25 years. Just imagine how terrifying it must have been had she ever been left alone in the house or if she had to drive that lonely boreen in the dark on her own. Possibly her recollections of meeting Ian Bailey that day were so clear due to adrenaline with trauma not having yet set in. One can only surmise.
Can divorces get messy in France... would who was 'at fault' affect the settlement? Or would it just be no fault go separate ways financially?
A PI sent from France (or indeed hired locally by the husband) gone awry had occurred to me as a possibility before actually. Entirely conspiratorial, but one should note a solid majority of PIs in Ireland would be former / retired Gardai. Such a scenario could go a long way to explaining the Guards behaviour around this case, perhaps covering tracks of a former colleague. Again, entirely conspiratorial.
Whoever confronted her would most likely have come from in from the Eastern side of her house whether it was the front or back.
If indeed she was confronted at the house .
This caused her to flee towards the western side, towards Alfie's house .
The lane up to Alfie's rises sharply and there is a 5 or 6 ft bank up to the lane at her back door.
There was no way she could get up to Alfie's house from her back door without having to go along the back of her house to where her car was parked.
So the only place for her to go was down across the lawn,
or around the house, which she chose not to do.
It's odd all right nothing was heard, especially if it was a after dawn attack, when people would be in that half awake state, if not fully awake.
Yes I find that also quite strange but maybe they were quizzed/investigated further but who is to know. The Lyons had a birdseye view looking down on Sophie's house and even with the windows closed and going to bed early I find it hard to believe they didn't hear anything at all. It's so quiet around there and it's not as if their house was soundproofed. Lastly, if that's the rental car in her 'driveaway' does it not look like a hubcap on the backwheel at least (too hard to determine though).
Nothing worth stealing? How about a bottle of wine that was being kept for an occasion, since it was a nice one. Then after there's been a murder you get rid of it out the window of your car down the road from your house. Plausible
Mrs Hellen had motive to be there as the housekeeper,
she would not need to hide her presence.
What I've aways found strange was the fact that Sophie ran away from the one place she probably would have been safe that night - Alfies/Shirleys house. Especially someone in fear of their life. It's such a short distance away, highly unlikely someone would kill her if she made it to their house screaming etc. It makes me wonder if that is where the threat was coming from, why else would you not try to get help from them? The other house was unoccupied and there is nothing else along that long road, the next nearest place is about 1km away. It's never sat right with me. How do we know that Shirley's discovery of the body was authentic? It could have been staged. It's quite possible that there was an altercation with them that got out of hand, they would have had time to 'clean' the scene and get their story straight. Maybe Sophie had gone up there to confront them, an altercation could have started there before retreating back to her own place. It seems strange that they were never considered seriously. It's like they just said we heard nothing, were in bed together and the guards said 'oh right, fair enough'. Were they ever thoroughly investigated and considered suspects? Alfie even had a bandage on his hand that day apparently. Did they ever check to see if it really was a dog bite or a human bite mark? Especially since they didn't even have a dog.
The coat, along with several other items of clothing, were sent for forensic testing. Initially this was quite basic, blood grouping etc, which showed there were some blood markings, but were NOT a match to Sophie. They were sent to a northern Ireland forensic lab (along with other items such as the blood on door, sophies clothes etc), for more advanced dna testing, again absolutely no match to Sophie.
I believe there were further tests done in 2002 on certain items but I'm not sure exactly which except for the blood on the door which was at that point confirmed to be Sophies.
It's worth noting that there were some blood marks that couldn't be grouped, I'm certain the concrete block, blood on Sophies boot, the gate and other items at the scene.
The fact is that absolutely nothing linked Ian to Sophie forensically, and it's an urban myth that none were found or taken. Just none that matched Ian and none of Sophies on any of Ians many items that were tested.
I'm of the opinion that many items could be re-tested now with advanced dna technology, but of course many of these items have been "misplaced"
It's a very interesting point. It would also point to somebody with "local knowledge". Regarding that case, there was nothing more local than Alfie and Shirley. It would also point to the idea that Alfie and Shirley were related the the police corruption going on in this case.
However this doesn't give us any ideas why the bathtub was used, nor what Alfie or Shirley could have found so interesting about Sophie's house that their house couldn't offer? Also theft was never reported, there was probably nothing worth stealing in Sophie's house.
I think it's entirely possible that someone was using the house when it was empty.. And that Sophie changed the locks because of it shows that she took this possibility very seriously.
This person (or persons) never came forward to rule themselves out.
It is strange that Alfie & Shirley wouldn't notice this happening.. I'd love to know what they thought of it.. Do they believe that someone was gaining access to Sophie's house in her absence? Did she discuss it with them? Presumably you would talk about this with your close neighbour?!
The black coat is a red herring I think.. Bailey was wearing it in the Christmas Day swim video two days later! They did take a black coat for testing.. If they had found a single speck of blood or anything on it we would all know about it.
The unopened bottle of red wine is a mystery.. The sort of person who might steal it would surely drink it too before discarding it? Who throws away a full bottle of wine... Maybe someone in a rage? Somewhere much earlier on this thread I posted a theory that her ex boyfriend Bruno (who had previously intimidated her and been violent towards her) may have turned up unexpectedly that night at the gate with the wine in hand to try and win her back - she told him to leave and it turned nasty. This is still possible.. But the wine bottle wasn't found until four months later? I know the Guards were poor in this case but surely they combed through every piece of land in the area?
Jules said the coat was cut into one inch squares during the forensics search, AFAIR.
Still whoever used it could have cleaned it and would have if they had any other motive for being there. They would not want to betray their presence
Of most relevance about the bath is that Josephine said somewhere that Sophie was suspicious of Alfie getting into her house.
Alfie and Shirley were close to everything but weren't put under much pressure. This contrasts sharply with how Ian and Jules were arrested and questioned for about 10 hours each. I think that within 24 hours of this murder, at the very least, the Guards should have been around at Alfie's house with a search warrant. They could have been apologetic saying it's just procedure, we have to rule you out since you found the body. The most likely explanation is that there was something about that house or Alfie and Shirley that had to be kept quiet.
The Guards took a black coat from Bailey's property for testing which came back negative.
In the Netflix documentary, Detective Dwyer said Bailey burned the coat. Didn't mention anything about the other coat.
The Guards seem to think that he burned the actual black coat, and this was a different black coat.
Without explaining why he would have multiple similar jackets, or where he got the other black coat after the murder.
At no point did they show the coat handed in to witnesses to see if people remembered Bailey wearing it, no mention of whether the coat looked new or old...
Oh and bonus points, during the GSOC investigation, the Guards lost \ lost track of the coat and don't know what happened to it.
Getting back to Ian Bailey and the long dark coat he wore . In Sheridan's documentary Jules claims the Garda took this jacket for testing but I have never heard of any results coming from this .
You would imagine this item of clothing would be covered in blood/muck if it been worn by Bailey that night . Is this another crucial piece of evidence that just disappeared aswell ?
Apologies if it has already been brought up but this has bugged me ever since I watched the documentary .
Maybe Mrs. Hellen used the bath herself and forgot to clean it,
or maybe hubby used it , didn't they have horses close by?
They'd be most likely to be able to turn on the power and the hot water.
Changing the door locks appeared to stop the break-ins through the porch window?
Going around in a big circle!
Unless Alfie and Shirley or somebody known to them were the ones using it.
According to the pictures, Sophie kept little to no curtains in front of the windows. Anybody turning on the light would have been noticed even from quite a distance.
That is, if the bath was taken when it was dark outside.
I find it hard to believe someone could use the house/bathtub without Alfie/Shirley noticing. That means it was either them or they knew who was using it. They literally pass within feet of the back of the house when they are coming and going. As mentioned, the electricity, gas and water would probably need to be turned on each time as the house wasn't used frequently. They would surely notice a stranger loitering or walking up the road as it's such a remote place and only the 3 houses at the end.
The person using the bath would have had some understanding about the house. Where to switch on the electricity and the gas and even the water at the mains, I don't think one would consider a cold bath in a cold house and quite possibly in darkness.
I assume the gas and electricity would have been turned off at the mains during longer absences. Suppose the cleaning lady turned it on, just in time for Sophie to arrive, that would indicate that the one using the bath only had a very limited amount of time to do so, and would have had the house under observation and knowledge when who would be coming and going.
It's also possible, that the cleaning lady simply forgot to clean the bath tub.
If the person who used the bath cleaned it and closed the window no one would even know he was there. So not very smart. hobo or new age hippie i would say. Not planning a murder and didn't care or think about drawing attention to themselves. It always amazes me when people doing something wrong draw attention to themselves.
A professional wouldn't have had the need for keys, a professional would have picked the lock with ease.
There are only a couple of imminent suspects who would have had a key:
The previous owner, the estate agent and the cleaning lady, - that is unless Sophie changed the locks when she bought the house.
Maybe the cleaning lady wasn't as thorough as she claimed to be and didn't clean the bath tub? It doesn't make much sense as Sophie would probably have paid her more than properly, but again, it could have easily been as well that way. Like she missed it once or twice?
Maybe the house was used to hide somebody and whoever was hiding whomever knew the house was not lived in.
If the house was cleaned on one day, the bathtub used the next, and then Sophie arrived, it would suggest very very local knowledge on who comes and goes and when....that is, if the cleaning lady really cleaned the bathtub.
Hadn't seen that quote before.
Someone breaking in to a stranger's house to use the bath is a very odd person indeed. Like, who would do that? I don't buy the hobo thing, are hobos just roaming the remote West Cork countryside?
Regardless, someone capable of breaking and entering for bathing purposes is clearly a little unhinged? If it is true that she was hoping to catch this person in the act then maybe that night she did? I wonder was it an ongoing problem since the time she was there with Carbonett or had changing the locks stopped it?
Changing the locks seems to suggest she was concerned that this person had a key. How would they have come to have a copy of her house key? Was it someone she had had at the house consensually in the past?
A dispute with a person using her bath might sorta tie in with the block from the pumphouse being used to deliver the final blows.
Wild speculation but an interesting thought.
The story of the 3 stolen diaries should be taken with the same pinch of salt as the 3 large suitcases,
the white lady at 3 castle head , Marie Farrell's 3 sightings of Ian Bailey and the third secret of Fatima.
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