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Michael Higgins Praises Travellers Contribution to Irish Society

hawley

President Higgins said this research is extremely worrying and serves a clear reminder of the many challenges which are faced by Irish Travellers.

He continued by thanking members of the Traveller community for their role in Irish society.

“I thank you for your continued resolve to participate in that society – bravely combatting the hurtful discrimination and rejection which is so often your experience. "By working together, you have already achieved so much.

As a society we can learn a great deal from your inspiring spirit of solidarity, a spirit that reminds us of the shared sense of humanity that must define any truly democratic nation,” he added.

https://m.independent.ie/news/irish-travellers-face-some-of-the-worst-discrimination-in-europe-says-president-michael-d-higgins-40874719.html

I fail to see what positive contribution that Travellers make to Irish society. They have very low employment rates, little interest in education and bettering themselves and are massively overrepresented in the prison population. Michael doesn't seem to care about members of the public who have to deal with them on a regular basis. The reality is that they have been pandered to by the Irish state and have offered nothing in return. Michael then blames their failings on ordinary Irish people.

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Galwayguy35

Gilmartin road in the news again for all the wrong reasons, says a lot about them that 2 funerals can't be held on the same day without them flaking each other.

If any of ye saw the Whatsapp videos nothing more needs to be said.

Sick people in A&E probably had to wait longer because those scumbags were there taking up doctors time fixing them up.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930555#Comment_117930555

I didn't blame employers and I literally said both communities have a role to play. How likely would you be to go through the education system and get the skills and qualifications if you knew 80% of people wouldn't employ you just because of who you were born too. I'm not saying this is the sole deterrent for travellers, they absolutely have to address their own issues within the culture but they don't have the same opportunities to make a contribution to society and (I will reiterate again so I'm not misrepresented) both the travelling community and the settled community have contributed to that.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926914#Comment_117926914

Indeed the four times electoral failure did opportunistically give voice to some rotten attitudes that exist but thankfully there were more than enough decent people to ensure the one-trick pony was shown the door, good riddance.

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930415#Comment_117930415

And how many travellers are actively looking for employment? Of those how many have the education or skills set an employer might be looking for?

Blaming the employer... Jesus wept...

Here is a basic question. How many members of this community are there and is the crime level and level of negative behaviour reported in proportion to the % of travellers in the population?

They get the same welfare entitlement as everyone else yet disproportionately thieve. That must be a very large 'minority' of a minority that the PC brigade refer to.

Like most people on this thread, show me positive changes or contributions made to society and I'll change my viewpoint. Millions are spent on this tiny population every year but nothing seems to change.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930389#Comment_117930389

yes they would.

those who have a problem with all of them just because traveler would find other excuses to have an issue with them, such people aren't actually bothered about those issues as i said, they just use them to traveler bash.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930389#Comment_117930389

People do have problems with their honour culture though, and contrary to your belief there are people who will always find any excuse to rag on travellers, sometimes based upon their own personal experiences, more times based upon the claims made by others that they want to believe are true of travellers.

It’s not the case at all that travellers are of the belief that everything about society is wrong, they’re generally well aware that their way of life is not in tandem other peoples opinions of how people should live their lives. Only very few travellers I’ve known have any sort of a victim complex that they blame everyone else for their issues, but that perspective isn’t unique to travellers. I’ve known few people too who aren’t travellers who have the same sort of victim complex as though the source of their issues is external.

That’s why I’m aware of the fact that in any group in society there will always be a minority of people within the group who see themselves as victims, while the majority of any particular group don’t care as they’re too busy just getting on with their lives to be concerned about how anyone else chooses to live their life.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930389#Comment_117930389

This is why these threads are pointless - you say 'give respect and get respect' and then proceed on a diatribe heavy on presumption and prejudice and then wash your hands pretending you're not part of the problem. I really don't expect you as an individual to give a traveller a fair crack of the whip if it came to it. I'm sorry I don't, the evidence before me is you wouldn't break bread with them, and would marginalise them further in your interactions with them. That's my judgement on you whether you like it or don't like it, and I hold you're part of the issue.

Pointless really

"I'm not prejudiced" *Proceeds to go off on a mad one about how travellers are fundamentally crims*

[Deleted User]

When a very well-reasoned and articulate Traveller woman phoned into Liveline quite recently, criticising Traveller culture regarding arranged marriages at a very young age, she got pretty short shrift as her argument didn’t suit RTE’s #woke agenda. Quite ironic.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930355#Comment_117930355

How many businesses do you know that would hire a traveller if one came looking for a job? B and A did a national survey in 2017; something 80% surveyed wouldn't employ a traveller. Like I said before it's a vicious circle where both communities have a role to play.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930345#Comment_117930345

Bit silly to claim anyone isn’t prejudiced against a whole group in society as though all people who belong to that group are one and the same, based upon limited experience of a small minority of members of that group? That’s exactly what prejudice is, but for sure it doesn’t follow that anyone is going to act on their prejudices and actively discriminate against anyone.

Their prejudices aren’t an issue if they’re not unfairly discriminating against anyone in society on the basis of their membership of any particular group in society. I absolutely would blame anyone if they tried to claim their experiences represent any group as a whole, it’s completely irrational, let alone completely unjustified.

It would be like Cliona Saidlear claiming that young girls need to be taught that boys are a danger to them -

Dr Cliona Saidlear said young girls need to be made aware that young boys who sit with them in the classroom can also be a danger.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/a-boy-in-class-could-be-a-danger-girls-warned-of-sex-abuse-37969829.html

Still seems like a completely rational perspective to you?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930029#Comment_117930029

No one has a problem with their honour culture. It's the robbing, thriving anti social culture that is pervasive in their community that is the issue here.

Everything about travellers, is about how the rest of society is wrong, how we need to accommodate them. The likes of miggeldy never tell travellers that this has to be a two way street, you need to give respect to get respect.

Remove the robbing thieving anti social state dependent and misogynistic elements from that culture and the vast vast majority of people wouldn't have a problem with them.

bmc58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927305#Comment_117927305

Never heard a mention of that alleged incident.Just one person being cut severely by some impliment.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930330#Comment_117930330

How very evasive of you.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930345#Comment_117930345

I understand people being cagey, I'm not writing someone off because they had bad interactions with travellers. I've had them myself, but then again I've had good ones as well.

However, seven days a week I'm happy to call anyone who labels a group as 'rodent scum' as someone who has prejudice running through their veins and I've no doubt if we went digging a little deeper, would find more groups he'd dehumanize in an off-handed manner - and, he's a lot closer to the source of problem he thinks he opposes than he would ever ever admit.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930330#Comment_117930330

Threadbanned

riddles

80% of travellers are unemployed. I doubt Higgins has encountered travellers in full flow. I worked in a small business and hated seeing them coming in when I was on my own.

Genuine travelling people are pretty rare and frequently mixed up with a transient mob who are basically mobile criminals.

bmc58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925289#Comment_117925289

Can't decide whether I'd give you a like for that comment.Thought provoking comment.

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930292#Comment_117930292

I reckon you think anyone who has a poor view of the travelling community must automatically be a prejudiced person by nature. You can sort of see that attitude seeping out of every one of your comments.

What about lived experiences? Do they count in your mind? My own father lived near a particularly notorious halting site for most of his youth and young adulthood. As a result he cannot strand travellers and doesn't trust them. He's had countless bad experiences with them, as have all of his family. Says he has met 3 in his entire life that were half decent - but still a bit dodgy at the same time. And he is most certainly not a prejudiced person. He doesn't live his life hating or discriminating against anyone. But his learned experiences have shaped his opinion. And I don't really blame him based on some of the stories he has told me. (and some experiences I had myself)

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930291#Comment_117930291

Because whatever the issue is, is not part of their culture if it’s not unique to their culture. Is that an unreasonable point of view?

Of course there are plenty of problems within the traveller community, and pointing fingers at them as if the very same problems don’t exist outside of their community, and ascribing it to “their culture” based upon one’s own beliefs, isn’t addressing the issue, it’s simply attempting to justify one’s own prejudices.

I agree with you that it’s the scale and size of the issue that matters, but what doesn’t address the issue is pretending it’s because of their identity that the issue is more prevalent in their communities than it is outside of their community. That’s why I suggest anyone who wishes to address an issue start a lot closer to home, before they point fingers at other people.

(and for the love of God don’t wear the ears off anyone preaching about ‘toxic masculinity’ and ‘misogyny’ in any culture, because anyone doing that is making it entirely about themselves and their own ideological perspective)

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930313#Comment_117930313

I don't consider travellers to be an ethnic group

A criminal sub-culture ,yes

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930205#Comment_117930205

FFS they're not the velociraptors from Jurassic Park. I'm going to put this as nicely as I can, I think you have a prejudicial outlook on travellers and it's probably not limited to travellers as an ethnicity.

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930167#Comment_117930167

Why does something have to be unique to traveller culture, in your mind, to qualify as being part of their culture?

There are lots of problems within their culture. That doesn't mean that those problems need to be exclusive to their culture in order to be classified as a major problem. Your logic seems very strange on this.

Alcoholism is a major issue within Native American settlements in the US & Canada. Similarly in aboriginal settlements as well. It's obviously not unique to their culture, but it's a major problem within their culture. And it's at much higher levels than the general public.

Some of the issues in the travelling community, are serious and endemic to their community. They don't need to be unique to their culture in order to be a major problem within their culture/community. It's the scale and size of the problem that matters, not whether it came uniquely from their culture.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929468#Comment_117929468

The bad news about them out ways the good positive news when there is any

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930068#Comment_117930068

this essentially amounts to a " no yer mah" type rant, saying the exact opposite of what i said, thinking that is an argument or a point, when it isn't.

i do care about the issues criminality, and others, whether committed by travelers or anyone else, has on society, hence i vote for a political party which will actually deal with those issues, unlike you i suspect.

i don't need to be seen to be anything, given it's quite simple, i don't discriminate against someone based on membership of an ethnic group, sexual orientation, skin color etc.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930029#Comment_117930029

Travelers can smell weakness, treat them politely and they feast on you

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929360#Comment_117929360

Enda was in coalition with Labour at the time and Labour really pushed for it ,never mind the media, academia and NGO sector

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930070#Comment_117930070

I’m not so up my own arse that because I don’t share your perspective I’ll tell you that you don’t have a clue, but I have done as you suggested already, and besides that I managed to ensure her children were enrolled in school and that she was able to get decent accommodation for herself and her family so they wouldn’t have to be holed up in one of them shìtholes euphemistically called women’s shelters. As for her husband, well I may have neglected to mention it to him that the law will protect him too from an unmerciful hiding.

It’s because my experience doesn’t correlate neatly with your idealistic nonsense that you see anyone who doesn’t agree with your perspective as defending anyone from being discriminated against on the basis of your prejudices. Your prejudices are YOUR responsibility, they’re not anyone else’s responsibility.

You can attribute whatever you want to “traveller culture”, but making out that violence against women is unique to traveller culture as though the phenomenon doesn’t exist outside of traveller culture is enough to have me suggest you may want to start a lot closer to home if your intent is to address violence against other people or negative attitudes towards other people in Irish society, before you imagine yourself in a position to judge anyone else.

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930051#Comment_117930051

I live in a place where 10 years ago nobody knew that the people calling to their door to clean gutters and tarmac driveways were in fact travellers. They didn’t know it when they were fleeced of their pensions without a tap of work done, they just knew that they’d been fleeced. Was it their prejudice that fleeced these elderly and vulnerable people??

Andy Lee is truly a credit to his family, but he’s said it himself he isn’t a fan of the lifestyle.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926730#Comment_117926730

It would have been funny if he did.

99% of Travellers ruin it for the decent 1%.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929953#Comment_117929953

You really don't have a clue. Try telling a beat-up Traveller woman that the law protects her from her husband when she knows that her family will shun her if she does anything about being beaten up.

I cannot for the life of me understand why you continually defend the right of any culture to treat women the way that Traveller culture does.