So the poster who claimed 'people in favour of immigration don't live where immigrants live' means what exactly?
Considering immigrants live in all areas.
So what?
It doesn't matter what name they are claiming to be killing people for.
They are still murderers. If convicted they still get the same conviction.
Depends entirely on the nature of the immigrants. High skilled and educated people coming here legally for existing positions can live all over the place, but mostly in the same areas their local peers live. Those less skilled and educated and "undocumented" or those that came here before the birthright loophole was closed quite naturally tend to go to lower cost, or public housing and would be more likely to seek out areas, mostly urban, where people more like themselves have already set up home. Actual refugees and asylum seekers follow this trend less and can be found in all sorts of places including more rural areas.
Well here is a thing, in Europe and beyond there are no people killing in the name of the Church Of Ireland, god / Jesus , Judaism, Jehovah etc... on the other hand murders are occurring in the name of Islam
Kinda but not quite. Like you say Christianity is indeed growing worldwide, but almost entirely outside of the West in Asia and Africa. The decline of churchgoers in Europe over the last half century has been stark. It's even declining in the US of A where Gaaawd is also somewhat in retreat. What inter spreading of faiths that is going on is mostly happening outside the West too, again in areas like Asia and Africa. In the West, Europe in particular what growth there is of the faithful are Christians and Muslims from outside Europe.
Christianity is increasing worldwide. What you are complaining about is the inter-spreading of religions everywhere in the world, not just to the west. This is a by product of globalisation.
What areas do immigrants go to?
The poll shows that most Irish people want the State to take in more than 230 Afghan refugees than the government has committed to. The politicians should listen to the majority of the people and not the squeaky wheels.
1) it's a majority on a single poll. 2) Ok let's agree with your position, but the same "most Irish people" want the state to not take in more than 1000 Afghan refugees. Only 19%, that I hate to break it to you is not "most Irish people" who want more than that. A 1000 is a tiny number and this is regarding current in the news and public eye actual refugees fleeing a coup and rogue state out for blood where more support and sympathy would naturally be expected. I wonder how the exact same poll would go if we swapped out Afghani refugees for economic migrants coming across the Mediterranean. Not nearly so well I'd be willing to bet.
If the people are unhappy with how the Irish government has handled immigration over the last decade, you would be forgiven for believing from the poll that this is because they have not committed to helping enough refugees.
In imaginary land where all agree with one's position maybe, in reality we simply don't know from that poll. Again the clear majority polled said 1000 refugees or under. Not exactly resounding result as far as bringing in refugees is it?
Solidarity and PBP supporters. No surprise there.
Yeah, those mainstream highly represented political parties... I found it interesting that among the party affiliations that "had the highest number of respondents who said Ireland should take in no Afghan refugees" FF and Aountu aren't a shock but Sinn Fein voters are. That's a little at odds with their party's policies.
And even with the Journal's poll cherrypicked selection bias we're still left with a majority who don't want to take in more than a thousand Afghan refugees. If a majority even a third said we'd like more than a thousand refugees support for such a programme would be on firmer ground, but it clearly isn't.
It always seems the people who are in favour of mass immigration correlate with the people who don’t have to live in the areas where the immigrants go.
The funniest claim from them was on a thread a year or two ago when they compared terrorism to a peanut allergy.
As statisticians fallacies go, tbh the interpretative narrative of the poll results by the journal IS stretching well beyond what the poll actually represents. On the specific question about whether someone believes a person is racist if they wish to control immigration, it was the squeaky wheels who were of the opinion that a person who holds such views is racist -
From the way the poll was conducted, it does appear to have been conducted in the same way YouGov in the UK does their poll weighting along political and geographic lines, given that of the 5,000 people invited to participate in the survey, 1,000 respondents were chosen as being representative of Irish society as a whole. It appears as though the inputs were manipulated to produce the output that those commissioning the survey wanted, and the journal did the rest of the heavy lifting in it’s interpretation of the results of the poll.
Your own interpretation of the journals interpretation only increases the inaccurate representation of the opinions of people in Irish society regarding immigration control and in particular their views on the Government’s response to taking in refugees from Afghanistan.
You’re forgiven for interpreting the results of the poll in such a way as supports your opinions, I’m certainly not going to beat you over the head with it, but the poll itself is not representative of Irish society when they cherry picked the participants in order to present a narrative which doesn’t represent Irish society as a whole, but is rather based upon the characteristics which suited the commissioners of the survey. In short, the poll and it’s various interpretations is simply a demonstration of selection bias in action, and quite obviously as much.
EDIT: Unsurprisingly btw, from the same people who brought you the classic -
What is an 'affordable home'? Most people put the price at between €200,000 and €299,000
And again their interpretation of “most people” is sketchy af -
Overall, 50% of the public suggested that a price between €200,000 and €299,000 was ‘affordable’.
https://www.thejournal.ie/affordable-housing-poll-5477459-Jun2021/
To say "one in four equate immigration control to holding a racist belief means that three in four don't" is a statistics fallacy. Its 62% that don't believe that someone is racist if they wish to control immigration. Regardless, you can believe in having immigration control while still believing that we can accept more into the country, as the main statistic shows.
Yes, the majority reckon that the EU didn't handle immigration well over the last decade, but no mention was made of the Irish government. If the people are unhappy with how the Irish government has handled immigration over the last decade, you would be forgiven for believing from the poll that this is because they have not committed to helping enough refugees.
This is reds-under-the-bed conspiracy stuff.
I think you're looking at this in the wrong way. Indeed the majority is in support but that support usually means that they have nothing against it, not that they want it, whereas the ones against are really against.
A poll paid for by the Journal and conducted by a company run by a guy who worked for 4 years at the British Labour Party. Yeah right.
Ah yes the law will save us.
Then again it mightn't, as in the case of thousands of young white girls from working class areas in Britain that were sexually used and abused because the laws were simply ignored by authorities lest they antagonise people of a certain religious persuasion and from certain areas of the world.
And please don't give us some guff about the catholic church or vast majority of abuse carried out by relatives in response.
We are tired of whataboutery being used as an excuse and defense.
The shyte trotted out by some in defense of the actions of adherents of a certain religion throughout Europe in the last couple of decades.
We have someone conflating the murder of someone in a drunken brawl with the preplanned premeditated savage murders of totally innocent people simply because of their race and non religion.
The fooking shyte about dead is dead and murder is murder is frankly disgusting, and ranks up there with the muppets in the past claiming terrorist attacks with trucks was equivalent to bus or train crashes.
Then we get some shyte added in about how all relegions are bad when every dog in the street knows which one today has members slaughtering others in the name of that religion.
No wonder some trott out the line everytime there is another attack that it must be the amish at it again.
And then there is the other old chestnut dragged up in response to the accusation that majority muslim countries are backwards despotic shyteholes in the main.
Yes we have a few majority muslim countries that have some form of secular rule, but really when you delve down into those countries you find that more conservative islamic political movements are on the rise, fundamentalism is on the rise and that the liberal secularism we are told about doesn't or hasn't always existed outside the major more westernised urban areas.
bubblypop has experience of European islamic majority countries, but they must surely have to acknowledge the spread of more hardcore islam into this countries in the last couple of decades.
I find it extraordinary that "one in four equate immigration control to holding a racist belief"
Is the entire world racist in their opinion or are they just lacking in any critical thinking skills?
I suppose we can take solice in the fact that 3/4 reject that ridiculous notion.
No twisting required. By that poll while a yes majority reckon 230 or more is OK, that has a clear cut off point of just 1000 people. A tiny number(the British have Ok'd twenty times that number). A minority want more than that. The clear majority want between zero and a thousand Afghan refugees. And these are people who are actually fleeing genuine and current danger from a rogue and harsh state. Hardly a resounding poll for more immigration as far as Irish people go. Indeed further on we see 88% want the state to provide more integration of such people and while only one in seven would vot for an anti immigration party, the Journal says one in four equate immigration control to holding a racist belief but that means three in four, a majority, don't. A majority also reckon that both the EU and the Irish government hasn't handled immigration well over the last decade. Of course the poll didn't flesh out the whys.
Even those who don’t give a damn about the fact that the law still applies to them equally as it does anyone else, they generally speaking try to avoid being caught when they violate any given law, precisely because they are aware that they are bound by the law as everyone else.
The law still operates as it does, the judicial process operates as it does, and the punishment for antisocial behaviour is constrained by the fact that in many cases it’s determined that a custodial sentence isn’t beneficial either to the individual or to society.
Twist it all you want, the statement "Most Irish people want the State to take in more than 230 Afghan refugees" from the poll is correct.
27% said 230 is the right number of refugees to take in. 53% want to take in more refugees (34% + 19%). Only 16% said that they wanted less than 230 refugees or none (8% + 8%).
Laws work fine in all communities, because why would law abiding communities need laws, if you know what I mean?!
It’s true, I’ve never lived in any of these countries, but how does that observation counter any of the points I’ve made basing my opinion on objective evidence as opposed to just taking your opinions as fact when it’s clear all your opinions amount to is indeed hearsay, rumour, unsubstantiated nonsense, to support your belief that Islam is taking over the world? I live in Ireland where the total number of Muslims amounts to less than 2% of the population, and they aren’t particularly of the smitey variety.
Those Muslims who are of the smitey variety are a very small number in the countries you have lived in in any case, and still I wouldn’t just take the opinions of any friends, relatives or people who have lived in or are from those countries as fact, because as I explained it would be like taking it as fact that Irish society is a hotbed of homophobia because Panto Bliss said so.
I have no doubt there are a minority of people in Ireland even who believe that’s true too based upon their personal experiences from their own perspective, but their opinions too are based upon anecdotes and hearsay and just don’t rise to the standard of objective evidence that would support their assertion that Ireland is a hotbed of homophobia, any more than your opinions should be taken as evidence that Islam is going to take over the world at some point in the future, way way off into the future, even when not only is there insufficient evidence to support your claim, there’s plenty of evidence which refutes it.
No, it's definitely not easy, but time and resources put into this can be beneficial long term.
"Most Irish people" is a stretch. Then again it is the Journal where even a poll they commissioned is tweaked to suit. 61% said either 230 is the right number(27%) and between 230 and up to a 1000 as a cutoff is the right number(34%). Only 19% said more than a 1000, with 8% saying less or none. If someone wanted to paint a different narrative they could claim that 35% "most Irish people" want 230 or fewer and the clear majority want a 1000 or less.
Most Irish people want the State to take in more than 230 Afghan refugees
An Ireland Thinks poll indicates that younger people, educated people and non-religious people are the most likely to want to take in more than 230 refugees.
Bubblypop, you are 100% in favour of the Law, fair play to you for that, and for sure we have more than enough of them. And thats fine. But when you read and hear about criminals presenting with 100+ previous convictions, and getting ( yet again) another suspended sentence, it all rings a little hollow. Now dont get me wrong. I'm sure thats not your fault. But it is the situation here in Ireland ( and maybe other countrys too ) In general, Laws work fine in law abiding communities, but outside of those, who gived a damn about the Law?
And all of coming from a man who has never lived in an Islamic Country, and basing all his opinions on hearsay, ( a word you are overfond of using yourself when critising the opinions of others )
I would say community engagement is the best way but not that easy in certain communities, molenbeek for example harbored some of the paris terrorist's, same could be said for Lyra Mckees murderers in creggan.
Yes. When it comes to extremist behaviour, it needs to be looked out for. This is done in a number of ways, including community engagement.
Talking about preventing crime. Common motives need to be looked out for to prevent future criminal acts by people who have the same motives.
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