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Where does all the money come from

fun loving criminal

They put thousands of people out from work during covid and put them on the PUP.

Now that things are opening back up and employers should be hiring, they created a jobbridge 2.0 scheme, but paying more than the last jobbridge, essentially minimum wage job for 30 hours a week.

And that's not all, someone earning under 35,000 after tax can apply for social housing and get the housing assistance payment. Nothing against this housing assistance payment, 35,000 isn't all that much.

But makes me think, where is all the money coming from?

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dxhound2005

If they can cut spending by €4 billion, or find other sources for €4 billion the USC could go. Another idea would be to rename it, like in 2010. The USC is a new name for other levies which already existed.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866909#Comment_117866909

I always laugh when people complain about bitcoin and crypto and say it's just intangible numbers that aren't real so shouldn't be trusted - meanwhile most of the money they will ever have is just numbers on some banks computers that comes to them as numbers from their employers bank's computers that they never see in tangible form before transferring as numbers to some retailers bank.

Wanderer78

jesus christ, we all need a major lesson on this one, including myself, money does not come from taxation. in a modern economy, there are effectively only two ways of creating money, from governments, via bond markets, and from private sector financial institutions, i.e. banks, in the form of credit. credit is in fact the most abundant form of money on the planet today, this of course comes from banks, when they create a loan, this is where mainstream economics, otherwise known as neoclassical economics, collapses, as it simply does not accept these facts, i.e. that banks create the majority of our money supply. it believes, and it still does, even post 08, including some of the world leading neoclassical economists, Krugman etc, that banks are 'intermediaries', i.e. moving money from one place to another, and taking a slice for themselves, but this is completely untrue, banks are actually still creating the majority of our money supply, globally. hence why no mainstream economist foreseen the 08 crash coming, but many non mainstream did, due to knowing these facts.

we in fact need to move away from this approach as a matter of urgency, as it has become too unstable, too prone to crashes and deep uncertainties, but in order to do this, we must embrace the perpetual deficit. by running deficits, we are maintaining a positive public money supply, and hopefully becoming less reliant on the private sector money supply, i.e. the credit supply, even though a credit supply would still be critical, i.e. we need banks remaining to be banks, and lending, but for more productive means, and not what they have been doing, for speculative purposes, helping to drive up asset prices, particularly in relation to property and land.

the war on public debt has significantly ramped up during whats called the neoliberal period, i.e. last few decades, its effectively propaganda from both the political left and right, and also politicians not having a fcuking clue about these fundamentals, go on, ask a politician about money creation, they ll probably mention taxation as well! we have allowed whats called the fire sectors(finance, insurance and real estate), to dictate and dominate our economies, helping tir share o drive us over cliffs, and them getting away scot free every time, its always important to remember, it was in fact the banks that went bust in 08, as their plan of continual asset price inflation, particularly in relation to property and land, collapsed.

oh and to the person above that said banks may stop lending, why would they do that, they would cease to exist if they did, as this is their main reason for existing! this is one of the main reasons why globally, banks moved their lending operations to bigger fish such as large corporations, vulture funds etc etc, which of course helped us all, didnt it, with their share buy backs and so and so...... oh and electronic money is not a construct, its very very real, and has been for a very very long time, as the majority of money, both public and private sector created money, is in this form.

oh and below is yet again, a snap shot of irelands money supply, both public and private, i.e. our debts, as debt is the money supply, i.e. without debt, we aint got no mon! you can clearly see what caused the 08 crash, i.e. an over reliance on the private sector money supply, i.e. the credit supply, via banks. oh and for good measure, ive thrown in the american money supply also, you can clearly see what happened throughout americas history also of over reliance on the private sector money supply, credit, and the subsequent crashes it caused

Credit and Debt USA.png

Ireland Debt.jpg

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867343#Comment_117867343

You must lagh a lot then.

Most crypto is akin to a pyramid scheme - granted the technology behind it will have it uses and some crypto may become useful but right now if you compare crypto with flat currency purely because they are both "intangible numbers" you are well wide of the mark. The "intangible numbers" tied to currency are in general, at the very least, regulated.

Geuze

2020 GG revenues = 85.7bn

2020 GG expenditure = 104bn

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gfsa/governmentfinancestatisticsapril2021/

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867444#Comment_117867444

yes, we need to now maintain this type of thinking and approach, and not be afraid of it, even though problematic in its own way, its still better than running surpluses and balanced budgets, but i suspect we ll default to our usual narrative at some stage, and i wouldnt be surprised if that occurs under a more left leaning government

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866630#Comment_117866630

I follow these best countries to live in; most livable cities; happiest country league tables with some interest, and don't recall Ireland placing top 6 in any of them. What positive criteria does ireland regularly place top six in?

2021 happiness - Ireland is 13th

2021 livable cities - Dublin ranks 51st

2021 Healthcare - 19th

2021 Best Countries - 23rd

2021 Corruption (least) - 18th

2021 Cancer rates - 3rd highest

Yay, Ireland makes your top 6 if you want cancer.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867494#Comment_117867494

The UN Human Development Index.

[Deleted User]

Where does inflation come from though, a suburban pub is now charging 6.90 for a pint of Guinness now that it has reopened?

JohnnyChimpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867494#Comment_117867494

the cancer is primarily because we have an ageing population.

Also because we are a nation of smoking boozing fatties shovelling red meat through our colons 24/7, but primarily it's the fact that we have an ageing population

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841540#Comment_117841540

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117845031#Comment_117845031

Ultimately yes from Taxes. Govt borrow money cheap now in the financial markets. How will that be repaid? through taxation.

How soon are we fcked? Very. As soon as interest rates start rising to control inflation (hint probably very soon) then SHTF.

wotzgoingon

Where did they get all the money to build council estates in the 70's and 80's?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867751#Comment_117867751

when your creditors are on your back, inflation is probably the only way out of it!

Amirani

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867494#Comment_117867494

Cancer rates are strongly correlated with life expectancy. If your population lives longer, they'll get more cancer.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867853#Comment_117867853

central bank

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867955#Comment_117867955

People do not want to hear that, they want to hear...I can control everything, there is a solution to everything while eating healthy, exercising, and not smoking is a good thing in lots of ways, it does not stop someone from getting cancer, nonsmokers can get cancer, for example, cancer is largely a disease of aging. There is a big difference between something directly causing cancer v might contribute to the development of cancer.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867835#Comment_117867835

ultimately no actually, once again, the two main methods of money creation are governments, via bond markets, and banks via credit creation, neither have anything to do with taxation. where our obsession with taxation comes in is with balancing the books, which is in fact the most stupid thing to do, as we become over reliant on the credit supply, in order to run our economies

RulesOfNature

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867835#Comment_117867835

Technically the government does not need to tax you at all. Taxation is to control money supply. To control inflation.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867786#Comment_117867786

Average age in Ireland ranks 67th, the average being 37 in 2020.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867955#Comment_117867955

We are 18th in life expectancy. Japan is first - 17 places better - so should be outdoing us on cancer rates if it were as simple as that.

dxhound2005

Male life expectancy is about the same in Japan and Ireland.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867853#Comment_117867853

There was long periods of strong global growth, strong productivity growth.

Low growth looks like being the norm for quite a few years to come in the Western world.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868056#Comment_117868056

Governments do not 'create' money by borrowing on the bond market. They access it. Same as you or I do when we borrow money.

they use taxation to take money from us to repay bond borrowings so that they will be able to borrow again in the future.

Money is only created by governments when they print it (via central banks/fed/ecb), but Ireland cannot do that as it gave this facility to the ECB.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117869140#Comment_117869140

or stagnation...... which means, we re in trouble regarding debt, in particular private debt

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117869210#Comment_117869210

this is the neoclassical 'model' of money creation, and it is completely wrong. once again, the two main methods of money creation are governments via bond markets, and banks via credit creation, hence the use of the term, 'governments are not like a house hold', as they have the ability to create money, and households do not, i.e. its why the whole idea of balancing budgets is pure bullsh1t, and in fact is dangerous. each euro zone central bank do in fact create a small proportion of the money supply, in the form of hard currencies, coins and notes, this includes the irish central bank, so also wrong here. yes, by joining the euro, we handed the ecb the majority of our money creation abilities over, but not all our abilities, as discussed. we could also create other methods of our own money creation via our own network of public banks, as some euro zones counties already have, but since theres very little understanding of this, theres virtually no drive to do so. one again, globally, the largest supplier of our money supply comes from private sector financial institutions, i.e. banks, in the form of credit, once again, this can be clearly seen in the graph included. and just for clarification, once again you re wrong, banks actually create the majority of our money supply, and not central banks, but normal job soap commercial banks, when loans are taken out, hence the 08 crash. oh and for good measure, heres the research from central banks supporting all of this

2017_04_money_creation_process.pdf

Money creation in the modern.pdf

WHAT IS MONEY.pdf

Ireland Debt.jpg

riclad

in the 60,s ,70,s and 80s 1000,s of house,s were built every year ,a mix of private housing and social housing. the government knows it has to have a long term housing plan, build x amount of units for year ,for at least ten years .our population is growing .our economy will have severe problems unless our housing crisis is solved .We a problem with rents rising, when a nurse or a garda cant afford to buy a 2 bed house that means prices are too high. Also young people at some point want to settle down, marry and maybe have children. this is not possible to do if you can only afford to rent a 1bed apartment .

japan has a major problem, the population is falling because of very low birth rates, there are 1000,s of empty house, s in rural area.s .it makes sense to borrow money if its for a major project like new housing in area,s of high demand .

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867751#Comment_117867751

6.90 for Guinness, in the suburbs of Dublin, really?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867853#Comment_117867853

The welfare state was not as big then, healthcare and pension costs were not as high.

These days, ageing causes healthcare + pensions + social care costs to rise every year.

Plus, recent Govts have a policy of depending on the market to build houses, which are then rented via HAP, rather than building and owning the social houses itself.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871848#Comment_117871848

we had a much much smaller economy then, far less complex, we werent as integrated into the world economy, we werent as exposed to highly extractive elements such as the fire sectors. i think our overall health care needs are also far more complex, therefore costly, now, id say theres layers and layers of complexity occurring

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867371#Comment_117867371

I do laugh:

"A GRAND Chamber comprising 15 judges of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) will hear a number of appeals brought by Cypriot bank depositors, who lost their money in the March 2013 ‘haircut’ against the European Commission and the European Central Bank on February 2, 2016, the Sunday Mail has learned."

In 2015 I got sick of watching the value of my small balance in an AIB account evaporate, and took a punt and bought bitcoin instead. Lot's of laughs to be had since then.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117872223#Comment_117872223

its an unstable form of investment, bitcoin does not meet the criteria of money, its just a high risk investment, some are becoming millionaires and billionaires from it, while others are losing their bollcoks, particularly during pump and dump events