Don't think anyone is laughing about it. It's so serious that the EU Transport commissioner has highlighted the problem of subsidisation of motoring.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/01/24/motorists-should-pay-full-costs-of-road-pollution-deaths-and-damage-says-eu-transport-commissioner/?sh=3b1054502c0b
Because in the grand scheme of things its a minor compared to all of the other things your tax dollars go to pay for. And the majority of adults are motorists and likely will be for a long time until such time as cars drive themselves but they will still be the predominant mode of medium and long distance transport.
Not only do you not understand induced demand (despite claiming to be an urban planner, and it being one of the foundational concepts in such) - now you're showing the same sort of rank ignorance to the unequivocal fact that ICE vehicles are subsidised by wider society 🤦♂️
I'm guessing you're now going to show us that you don't understand the concept of an 'externality', despite this too being a foundational concept in urban planning.
Annual VRT: ~€942m (as per Oireachtas Parliabmentary Budget Office report from 2019)
Annual excise duty & carbon tax on all vehicle fuels in from a Department of Transport briefing note in 2014: ~€2,300m
Motor tax revenue in 2019 (same source as above): €772m
Total: ~€4,000m per year
VAT is irrelevant as VAT is near universal and the same personal consumption on other goods would generate similar VAT receipts.
2021 TII allocation to Local Authorities for maintenance of National Roads: €484mil
2021 Cork County Council's maintenance/improvement budget for local roads: €91m - 2021 DLRCC roads budget (excl National Roads): €29m - 2021 Donegal CC for same: €47m. 31 Local authorities, so assume minimum of €1,500m
2016-2021 Government Capital Plan for roads outlined €10billion over 7 years: €1,420m per year
2017 OECD study that estimated crude mortality rates and welfare costs of pm2.5 and ground level ozone for Ireland: €6,110m per year
Estimate of direct fossil fuel subsidies in Ireland per year: €4,000m per year
Total: ~€13,400m per year (and this is significantly undercounting the health externalities, and completely discounting the climate change externalities which will dwarf those of health)
"SUCH BULLSHIT, Hi I'm Larbre34. Don't make me laugh and more importantly, don't make me learn. I really hate learning."
The socialized costs of motoring runs way beyond the revenue streams to the Exchequer. You need first to do some research on the "exeternalities of automobiles" before you break your sides laughing!
I'd love to see your support for your claim that "you majority of adults are motorists". Are you talking specifically about DL here or in general? In much of Dublin city, the majority of households don't have a car.
But regardless of the majority, parking on the path is an awful thing to do. How is a person with sight loss supposed to navigate their route without busting their shins?
Firstly you are conflating being a motorist with owning a car but regardless
From the CSO
In 2016, 76.6 per cent of households in urban areas owned at least one car compared with 91.0 per cent of households in rural areas, a pattern largely caused by the low car ownership in the cities. For example, 33.7 per cent of households in the administrative area Dublin City stated that they did not have a car in 2016.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi8xp-Cq-zyAhUhmFwKHaMFB40QFnoECCAQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cso.ie%2Fen%2Fmedia%2Fcsoie%2Fnewsevents%2Fdocuments%2Fcensus2016summaryresultspart2%2FChapter_8_Travel_patterns_and_car_ownership.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3qBWvumbdNGHVlb_BOK56r
You're conflating households with adults. You claimed that the majority of adults were motorists.
God help us. This thread used to be of some value - good discussions of the changes and proposed changes to the road network etc. - but has just descended into a meaningless tit-for-tat where nobody's going to change the mind of another person. Or am I just being nostalgic?
i stand by it, plenty of houses with one car where both people drive, my own household is that configuration. I presume you counter my claim, care to provide any evidence to the contrary?
That pedestrian crossing is poor, probably due to the poor layout which needs a junction with honey park, a bus stop and to allow residents on kill Ave to have access to their drive ways.
There are several meters between the pedestrian crossing and where motorists are meant to stop at a red light so yes, motorists often get stuck between the red light and the pedestrian crossing. The whole section might be better served if painted as a yellow box junction.
The other issue is how long it takes to cross that road as a pedestrian- there’s no priority given to the pedestrian crossing. I’ve bring meaning to complain to the council about this…I’ll do it now.
So your support is anecdote then
No its the cso document I linked, what's yours?
The CSO document you linked tells you nothing about the number of adults who are motorists.
I disagree, it's certainly more compelling than anything you have put forward.
It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact. The CSO page you linked to is about household car ownership, not adult car ownership. They're two different things.
I said the majority of adults are motorists not car owners. What facts are you referring to because I haven't seen any from you?
Here you go over 75 percent of adults hold a driving licence
It couldn't be clearer
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-nts/nationaltravelsurvey2019/drivinglicences/
It's not staggeringly high at all tbh. It's very rare to see in and around Dublin, cyclists on the other hand im afraid to say seem to think red lights don't apply to them.
'very rare to see around Dublin' eh? https://www.thejournal.ie/cyclists-dublin-3018953-Oct2016/
It happens at every junction at just about every change of lights.
Why would I be presenting facts about your claim. It's your claim, it's up to you to support it.
Thanks for finally presenting some relevant data.
I needed to get to Dalkey in a hurry last night to pick up a young person.
It was after 11 as I drove through Monkstown, it was dark and foggy and no one around in Dunlaoghaire.
I couldnt go via the coast road but coming through Monkstown village I couldnt continue straight either.
I took a left turn near Bloomfield and drove down a narrow residential road, another left turn onto another even narrower residential road brought me back to the seafront and then back to Marine Road, is this what drivers are doing now if they come to Dunlaoghaire through Monkstown.
As I said no one around Georges street lower, just dark and creepy, was very glad the doors on my car lock automatically.
You are hilarious with these dramatic scenes you paint of Dun Laoghaire. Anyone who hadn't been there would think its like Gotham City! It's dark, foggy and after 11pm and you're creeper out because there's no one around? Would you please take your trolling elsewhere because it's getting tiresome now.
Is there anyone there any night after 10PM though, keep your trolling comments to yourself.
The point is if the streets are empty in the evening apart from undesirables hanging around outside pubs at 11 and motorists are detouring through residential streets then the benefit is what????
I saw the emptiness last night and its only September and the weather yesterday was fab, its a ridiculous situation, turning an area with a cinema and a shopping centre into a no go area at night.
Agreed. Taxiperson has just been a poisonous presence on this thread.
Taxiperson: Since you clearly dislike Dun Laoghaire so much, why don't you try get out of your head by no longer posting here? Many of us like the place and want to constructively discuss how the town can be improved; you have no such intention.
I'm new to the site and live in the area but i didn't realise the thread only allowed positive comments about Dun Laoghaire. Who are you to be telling someone not to be posting on a thread?
As opposed to the hustle and bustle of George's Street after 11pm pre pedestrianisation. Businesses are obviously closed at thst hour.
Perhaps take 10 seconds to plan your route next time.
I'm really wasn't aware that DL was high risk for car jackings.
Perhaps you are just contrarian?
I can post on whatever thread I like.
If you only want opinions that agree with you then put me on ignore.
Georges Street Dunlaoghaire was dead last night, people will stop walking there now and it will become a place for junkies and undesirables to hang out, I have every right to complain if once busy streets with cars, taxis, buses etc become dangerous places to be at night.
Stop bullying me off this thread.
Taxiperson, you're talking nonsense.
I'm surprised that if you ever worked Harcourt Street after kicking out time, that you'd be perturbed by a "dark and creepy" Dun Laoghaire.
I could take you to a hundred locations in this City, that on a weeknight are vacant and quiet, its how weeknights generally work. That alone doesn't make them dark and creepy.
You are very welcome, glad to have corrected your misconceptions.
It was a Tuesday night after 11pm! What did you expect mardi gras?! And the people outside pubs after they close are "undesirables" not just patrons having a chat outside after leaving. You're just constantly contradicting yourself trying to find ways to moan about nothing. Either there was no one or there were people outside pubs, it cant be both.
The pedestrianisation is clearly meant to be more of a benefit during the day. Check it out sometime, it's been great. If you're honestly suggesting that because it's not thronged with people at 11pm it's pointless then I don't know what to say to you.
Also next time you could also take a left at York Road to avoid those terrifying narrow residential streets.
I dont like walking where there arent other people around so the seafront at Seapoint is an area I avoid, there will be no one there in the evenings once its dark, no cyclists, no pedestrians, no car lights on the seaside of the road.
Georges Street will now be similar, it will be a no go area where drunks and junkies will congregate, bus stops where people gather and provide security are gone too.
What is the point of closing this short section of road to traffic, its sending motorists driving through Monkstown down unsuitable narrow pedestrian streets while the main thoroughfare is empty once shops close.
You have both roads into Dunlaoghaire now closed to inward car traffic and I didnt see any sign last night advising Georges Street was closed, I may gave been too busy though trying to work out how to get to upper Georges Street as the normal route through is now closed.
By the way if you cycle to Dunlaoghaire through Monkstown im presume you cant cycle through the town now either.
Do you have to take a left at Bloomfield and then come back up the hill at Marine Road and then go via Patrick Street or wherever to get to the shops.
All so off putting, seriously, who would be bothered.
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