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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    Well yeah. Ok then. The thread slipped into conspiracy theory territory long ago so whatever keeps the IB train going I guess. Since it happened in the states one time I guess we can lock him up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots


    No, you're missing the point. It could apply to IB or anyone else. Not JUST IB. But for those who adamantly defend him with the "no motive" line - this negates that logic. And you can be sure this didn't happen just one time. I just happened to see this latest story in the news.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    Love to at least see AGS followup by checking out if Bantrys rouge detective <snip> had a Ford fiesta registered on old plates. Don't expect to hear them doing that though.

    Also love to hear of the identify of the local Sup. who was out with MF but we won't hear that either.

    Lastly, we should get some follow-up on the wine bottle. Again, not expecting that either. Bought by <snip> to impress Sophie is my guess but who knows.

    Without the full investigation by the AGS we will really never know.

    *Bantry detective name deleted at request of poster

    Post edited by OwlsZat on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,695 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Its not the same or similar situation at all.

    Sophie was at home.

    Bailey knew of her before the attack and lived in the locality.

    I dont believe for one second the killer had no recollection in the incident you describe.

    This attacker could well have gone on to be a serial killer or offender.

    Bailey had no motive and Sophies death has no hallmarks of serial offender for which the crime itself is the motive.

    It does not negate the 'no motive' logic as far as Bailey is concerned... because 'no motive' is a key indicator re tge type of crime and suspect.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭Kenny Logins


    Netflix might convince you. They certainly try to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots


    Sorry, not wasting time responding to any of this. You've missed the point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Im pretty sure in the 90s the gardai did have blue ford fiestas in their fleet - some of these may have been umarked as gardai vehicles. He wouldnt have necessarily have needed to own one himself. Its possible this is why the gardai had no interest in following up the lead on the blue ford fiesta.

    Post edited by Deeec on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Can't really see this, Cowgirlsboots.

    The case you use to illustrate your point ( I'm assuming that its the "no motive" issue) , if anything, proves the opposite.

    ie. that there is virtually always a motive.

    Or am I misinterpreting something?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    I don't think it's materially important that it's here but if you are being honest and the wishes of the family is that its followed up on you should contact AGS. I fully expect them to take the information down and never contact you again. This investigation is so obviously been curtailed purposely!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots


    I am making a comparison between this statement made by Bailey to Bill Fuller:

    "You saw her in Spar and she turned you on, walking up the aisle with her tight arse. You went to see what you could get and she was not interested."

    and the same type of targeting by the man in the news article.

    i.e.; Man sees woman, man wants woman, man tries to engage with woman, woman rejects man, man flips out and murders woman. That's it. End of comparison.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yes, but there is clear evidence of a motive in the article you quote. Sex.

    There is no evidence of a sexual motive in the SDP murder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots


    Yes, there is. It's right there in Bailey's statement.



  • Posts: 205 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I am being honest, it's sensitive because the people with the information haven't gone to the authorities... Yet. If its all over social media they are less likely to. Its not me that is able to go to the Gards with 3rd hand information



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Deeec



    In fairness I think most people have heard this before ( re the death bed confession ). It is the first time though I have seen the name of the alleged Garda. I would hope the family do get the courage to approach the authorites with this and that they are taken seriously. This probably needs to be reported higher up the chain of command of the Gardai Siochana and political ladder rather than the local Garda Station. Its a real tough one for the family to decide who to go to with this info as there is a section of the Gardai who may want this buried and forgot about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    No, Cowgirlsboots,

    That's disingenuous.

    He also said "I did it to further my career" It was just another example of his rather pathetic and ill judged attempts at sarcasm. And he has explained it as such. it fits into the same pattern as the rest of his "admissions".

    In the case you quoted the unfortunate victim was found naked, except for a sports bra. Also, it states that her legs were spread. That is clear evidence of a sexual motive for the crime.

    There was no evidence of any actual or attempted sexual activity in Sophie's case. You cannot reasonably draw a parallel between the two.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭solasGael


    Senan Moloney, Irish Independent has been working this case donkey's years.



  • Posts: 205 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah but he's convinced it's IB. the problem is when a journo gets that in his head there's no going back



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Are you saying Ian Bailey accused Bill Fuller of the murder in his statement?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots


    Smh. Improper use of the word "disingenuous". You are missing the point. Your "objective" analysis is entertaining though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    No, I've had a think about and and I wouldn't change the word. I do believe that you are aware of the limitations of this line of logic.

    If I'm missing the point, please clarify or expand and I will be happy to reconsider.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots


    Sorry. It's not worth wasting anymore time trying to explain. Maybe the lightbulb will go on for you at some point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭tibruit


    The motive in this case is straightforward. The killer was a violent madman, with grandiose notions of himself, who didn`t take rejection well. As it happens, there was a violent madman living up the road, who wasn`t in his bed all night, wasn`t even in the house, and who had a mysterious scratch on his head at 9AM that wasn`t there the night before. What are the odds?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    The Garda incompetence and corruption throughout the investigation was obvious from the get go and became more and more obvious over time. Ie. The reams of missing evidence job books etc.

    It was always going to be littered with AGS involvement. Good people don't cover up murder unless they are covering their own. I.e. under direct instruction.

    Drew Harris is probably the ideal AGS commissioner to sanction a proper and final investigation. I'd suggest he draws up terms of impunity for any AGS member involved provided full disclosure if all is forcoming, ening this farce once and for all.

    Post edited by OwlsZat on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Unfortunately it's completely useless, both parties in the alleged conversation are now apparently dead. If the man died in 2001 he was probably quiet old and frail just four years earlier? If he died while still in the force there would surely be some mention of it, even in the local press. But there's no results for such a person that I can find.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭tibruit


    I have to say that I find the idea that there is an all encompassing Garda coverup here, protecting "one of their own", to be preposterous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Bill fuller's statement and testimony in court was that he believed IB was describing what he did in the third person. He seems to be known for this, they mention in the West Cork podcast that he gave them tapes of audio diaries and a recording made with Martin Graham in which he talks about himself in the third person.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    How do you know, if you are working on a sample of one case? How do you know the same issues don't show up in other straightforward cases? This case was unusual in the depth to which it was scrutinised in public, due to the various disclosure orders. Unless you can show this was particular to this case then the assumption of 'covering for their own' doesn't stand up. I hate to have to bring it up again but these claims of a supposed 'cover up' or 'corruption' were examined in detail by GSOC and during the High Court action and were rejected.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,695 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Of course they found no evidence, it was destroyed!

    You'd have to be particular bad at covering your tracks to be caught out by GSOC, who cannot question retired Gardai.

    35 pages were removed from the evidence book, if this is typical in straightforward cases, why would GSOC have considered referring it to DPP?

    In its report, GSOC says it is most concerned with pages that went missing from the original garda ‘jobs book’ while in the custody of gardaí.

    The commission said it had considered whether the interference with the Jobs Book warranted sending a file to the DPP, but they had chosen not to on the basis that one of the main gardaí who had responsibility for the documents had since died.

    There was no explanation offered by gardaí for the missing pages. GSOC concluded that there was “a lack of administration and management of the incident room” during the murder investigation, but found no evidence of malpractice or corruption.

    In the report, GSOC says its deliberations had been hampered by the refusal of a number of garda detectives involved in the case to co-operate with them and the fact that some of the gardaí who investigated the murder have since retired or died... It is interesting to note that a number of members of the guards were able to shield behind their retirement as a way of refusing to co-operate.”

    Also speaking to this paper, Mr Bailey’s solicitor, Frank Buttimer, said: “The reality of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission as an organisation is that it is powerless, in any meaningful way, to carry out any form of proper investigation into garda corruption."

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30859712.html

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



This discussion has been closed.
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