A three year old poll. Well, can't argue with that.
It’s curious how you don’t apply that same rationale to the argument you’re making when you try to portray immigrants as criminals? Notwithstanding the fact that I can support my perspective with surveys too -
People outrightly opposed to immigration are in a minority in most countries in the West (the survey above only concerns Europe), and of those people opposed to immigration their major concerns are economy and security. From that we can say with confidence that the vast majority of people in Western society do not share Anne’s ideas of “Western values”. I have no idea what Anne’s ideas of “Western values” are specifically that they claim to have fought for, but given their opinions are in a minority, it’s safe to say their values whatever they are, do not constitute Western values.
I am in favor of immigration as long as it's done properly, only welcoming people that belong here, that are happy to contribute and integrate and be grateful for what they find here. I should know as I'm an immigrant myself.
And no matter how hard you find it to accept, with a certain type of immigration there's always a certain type of problems, it is a fact and it happened everywhere, in every western country that had this type of migrants. You can't call me a racist for stating the facts.
"it’s apparent that the vast majority of people in the West clearly do not share your values with regards to immigrants." - The only way to gauge that is to have a vote on immigration. The last time we did, it was extremely clear that the people wanted the immigration loophole ended. Brexit was also based on immigration, amongst other things and also passed. The Poles voted for a leader who keeps their borders closed, same with the Hungarians and Orban.
I’m not denying reality at all simply because I don’t have to justify arguments I’ve never made in relation to multiculturalism and immigration. YOU want to argue using a stereotype that immigrants think a certain way and that’s why they shouldn’t be permitted to enter Ireland, but don’t call that reality.
I’m not even going to ask what “Western values” you think you fought for when it’s apparent that the vast majority of people in the West clearly do not share your values with regards to immigrants.
Wait a second, are you seriously arguing that women are not treated as second-class citizens in Muslim-majority countries?
They are treated as the property of men, and that's putting it mildly. Violence against women is on an unimaginable scale compared to Western countries.
Why do you deny reality?
Accept it. And then perhaps you can understand why we don't want that culture mass imported into countries with progressive, Western values that took long enough to achieve.
You still haven't answered this one, it's only about convicted criminals.
C'mon jack, explain this one away for us, if u can't just keep shouting racism etc. It'll have to do! -
12% in UK prisons for rape are Muslim men. Muslims are 4% of the population and men are less again
There clearly is plenty to distinguish between immigrants and criminals? There’s you applying the label of culture to two distinct groups and then saying it doesn’t matter what label is applied! Clearly it does matter - one group has the presumption of innocence, the other group have been found guilty of criminal offences.
You want to differentiate between the two groups on the basis of ethnicity to support your argument against immigration, so don’t tell me it doesn’t matter what label is applied!
There's nothing to distinguish; it's the same culture no matter what label you apply.
It appears that much like your inability to distinguish between immigrants and criminals, you don’t appear to be able to distinguish between a senior police officer, and UK police.
UK police admitting to 30 years of Pakistani men having sex with underage white girls, with their knowledge, is pretty much the definition of a great issue!! Your attitude towards the victims of these attacks is disgusting.
No, it means the two ideas which you’re so determined to conflate are unrelated. It’s absolutely plausible to be in favour of immigration AND abhor the ideas of rapes, bombings and beheadings. You’re arguing as though through immigration they’re an inevitability, and they’re not, and they never were, and they never will be.
That’s happening only in your imagination, and you need other people to believe it in order to convince them that immigration is bad, whereas what’s actually bad are rapes, bombings and beheadings, regardless of the ethnicity or sex of the perpetrator(s).
Sky is not falling. Id did fall for some of the parents that lost their children in the Manchester Arena bombing but everyone else is just fine. You know, like they used to say about smoking, 1 in 4 smokers die because of smoking, but that's nothing, the other 3 are just fine.
But many of the people coming here can be coming here because we're more liberal when it comes to sexuality, to be gay in Brazil or Iran is hard, so many come here to escape it.
I love to see the mix of people in Dublin, I feel it brings different ways of thinking. I don't think everyone coming here is getting low paid jobs, they are just the ones that are more visible, if you want evidence that there are people coming here for better-paid jobs, go to the pride parade, many tech firms had staff march in the parade and it was great to see the mix of people in the company's groups marching.
I for one love to be among people from different backgrounds. I was cycling home yesterday and could see some couples who were quite possibly from different countries, Irish and non-irish, it just made me smile.
To say this multicultural thing is destined for failure depends on what you'd set as failure or success. Just that I can mix with people from different countries when I'm out and about is a success of kind for me alreaady.
Did I say it never happened? Don’t be putting words in my mouth and trying then to pretend I said things I didn’t. I told Cordell I was curious about what they were referring to because it seems as though they’re making out that UK police officers are racist, and I don’t think that’s the case, and the case you present above is insufficient to support tarring police officers in the UK with the same brush in the same way as you’re eager to tar immigrants with the same brush.
That’s not sticking my fingers in my ears or any of the rest of it, it’s pointing out that you’re desperate to make a greater issue out of something on the basis of little evidence to support your claim, “sky is falling” if a bird shìts on your head sort of mentality.
Head in the sand fingers in the ears, it all good, all this never happened and even if it did it will never happen here in Ireland because if I am to admit that I'm concerned that will mean I'm racist and we really can't have that. We can have rapes and bombings and beheadings, but that's a small price to pay in order to preserve the non racist all welcoming image because that's all that matters.
Yep, never happened.
A senior police officer admitted that his force ignored the sexual abuse of girls by Pakistani grooming gangs for decades because it was afraid of increasing “racial tensions”, a watchdog has ruled.
After a five-year investigation, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) upheld a complaint that the Rotherham officer told a missing child’s distraught father that the town “would erupt” if it was known that Asian men were routinely having sex with under-age white girls.
His incendiary language features in a confidential report by the watchdog
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-we-ignored-sex-abuse-of-children-hgrhc358v
In order for PC - WOKE theology to succeed , truth and common sense must often be slayed
And that’s all anyone could do - is imagine. That’s what you’re expecting people to do when you present a stereotype which suits your narrative, but you shouldn’t expect that anyone else who doesn’t care for your creativity is going to agree that what you dream up in your own mind IS reality. It’s kinda like expecting that anyone is supposed to entertain “700,000 Pakistani immigrants in one year” nonsense.
I’m curious about your assertion that it was proven that police are less likely to go against Muslim men out of fear of being perceived as racist though? The police officers in question would have to perceive themselves as racist first in order for them to justify their reasons as to why they do not go against Muslim men on the basis of their race? Are you asking me to imagine how prevalent racism is among UK police officers? I suppose I could ask them individually, but they’d probably see me coming a mile off 😂
That's clearly because of the racial profiling! /s
Really now, given that it was proven that police are actually LESS likely to go against muslim men out of fear of being perceived as racist, imagine how much higher the real % really is.
What’s to explain? I’m not putting the statistic forward as evidence of anything, and I’m not sure what your point in putting it forward is either to be honest? You want to cherry pick statistics and then play the victim by claiming at any point I accused anyone of racism?
There’s that whole concept of guilt by association you don’t appear to be familiar with. If however you were interested in putting your cherry picked statistic in its proper context, then it portrays a very different picture of reality where the vast majority of criminals in the UK are more likely to be of the same ethnicity as your good self -
Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2018
You can also read the explanations provided for yourself and draw your own conclusions rather than expect I’m going to waste time arguing a point I never made.
Bad, racist polls
Can you point me to anyone, anywhere, who has argued that we need to import more rape and misogyny and abuse into Irish society?
Because if you can’t, then the only thing that’s a fact is that you’re arguing against something which nobody has ever suggested. It’s something you made up entirely in your own head and you’re trying to attribute it to anyone who’s positions on immigration you disagree with. No different than your attempt at guilt by association in suggesting that people from other countries = rapists and misogynists, etc.
In any case, everyone regardless of their national identity would still be subject to the same laws as everyone in Irish society, so your argument as though anyone is permitted to commit rape, or abuse, or disrespect anyone else by virtue of their national identity, is just nonsense. Any amount of immigration won’t change those facts. They are irrelevant to the question of immigration.
It’s why you don’t see me arguing that the people in those countries are also some of the most brilliant minds in the world, because that too is an association fallacy, only in the other direction. It’s also nothing to do with immigration.
Combine the two and you’re having to make a decision whether you care more about what you want to import - brilliant minds, but they also have some dodgy views about you! 😂 Of course the reality that people are multidimensional doesn’t suit your narrative of a stereotype which suits your purposes.
Even if it's true that there are sexual assault perpetrators in this country, we don't need to add to a pre-existing problem by injecting more people with the same kinds of proclivity into our country.
Offenses against women are higher in Islamic countries. That's an undeniable fact. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. That's your right.
The rest of us will acknowledge this ugly fact, and also conclude that we do not want to import that kind of misogynistic culture into our country.
If you’re living in Ireland, aren’t you here peddling plenty of your own regressive ideas already in a country where there are people who claim that their various interest groups are treated as second and third class citizens?
You don’t have to look abroad for the phenomenon at all, let alone at countries which you know nothing about, let alone at the fact that people who emigrate to other countries are looking to escape that country or culture.
Many of the same migrants you’re complaining about actually share your ideas for how Western society should be - lack of freedom, guilt by association, using the organs of the State to suppress dissent, maintaining that citizens should be denied equal rights, y’know, all that stuff you’re fond of banging on about that you don’t want in Irish society, the very things which the same immigrants you’re against coming into the country are the very people who would support you in achieving your aims!
That’s why it appears as though you’re just clutching at straws and using any means you can to justify your position on immigration, while it’s abundantly clear you don’t care about anyone else, you only care about your own ideas, and I don’t mind telling you they’re some shìtty ideas, so your point about any other ideas people bring with them? We have plenty of people with those ideas already, the hundreds thousands more you make up in your own head are just another crappy idea of your own invention.
New Years' Eve in Cologne 6 years ago; 1,200 sexual assaults perpetrated by recently entered migrants from North Africa and the Middle East.
You can call that a coincidence if you want, but it's quite clear that something else is at play.
Don't be surprised that when young men who come from countries that, at best, treat women as 2nd/3rd class citizens, that this kind of behaviour persist. The idea that this kind of cultural mentality will magically disappear once they enter Europe is for the birds.
When you bring migrants into a country, you aren't just bringing physical bodies - you also bring the ideas and culture that are embedded in that country. Many migrants are vehicles for very regressive ideas and, in the case of women, a disgusting penchant for sexual assault.
It’s pointless trying to argue with posters who imagine guilt by association fallacies are facts. That’s where this whole line of argument originally came from - a hypothetical thought experiment, and not even a realistic thought experiment, that was put forward as a means to argue against immigration.
The same posters, and I don’t mind saying it - couldn’t care less about girls being raped in the UK, it’s obvious from the fact that they would present such a ridiculous attempt at an argument that they are clutching at straws to justify their position on immigration, and they’ll use any means to do it, even making up complete nonsense, calling it facts, and expecting anyone should have to take it seriously.
The SAVI report has more credibility than posters attempting to conflate mass rape with immigration.
I've gone through that report, nowhere does it state that 25% (1 in 4) of Irish children have been raped by Irish citizens. You are a bare faced liar, with absolutely nothing to back your lies up.
Quelle Surprise
