Mad stuff, dafuq is the world coming to?
Trans- isn't just about transitioning from male to female.
Trans- also includes non-binary and others who choose their own gender identity label and/or pronouns. Surgery not required.
Nobody is saying effeminate males are not male.
I have addressed your point. Your point was that parents must influence kids who request pronouns and I have said that's not true and given the reasoning. Kids know about gender and they know about pronouns being used with gender. Therefore no parental input is needed for them to make the link that if they believe their gender is different to what they have been told then their pronouns are also different.
It 100% addresses your point. You seem to think that someone only addresses your point if they fully agree with you. It's a very egocentric method of debate.
You made up 2 things which I never said and we're on both occasions unable to provide a quote that backed you up. You claimed I "asserted" that the numbers of children requesting pronouns changes was not miniscule. When I asked for a quote to prove this you provided a quote where I said that kids in the past knew about their gender. I Never said a thing about the number.
And the first time I asked you to prove I had said what you claimed with a quote you said "oh I give up" and flounced off.
So you made it up.
I'm very happy for you to ignore my posts as at least I will not have to correct you on making multiple false statements from now on. (3 in a day. Think it's a new record).
I could use the same logic for any change in society, or the lack of change. And I'd be right to do so. There is far too much interest in short-term feel-good changes, without considering the long-term effects of those changes.
As for the "positions of conservatives against the majority", where do you get the idea that conservatives are a minority?
Look.. You're shifting away from your OP (and my response), and in any case, it has little to do with this thread. If you want to start up a fresh thread, I'll be perfectly happy to discuss your various questions with you.
The distinction doesn't change.
Biologically, men/boys cannot become women/girls.
Children have no conception of the social construction gender as adults understand it, let alone understanding the concept of changing pronouns. The only way for that to happen is if these ideas are introduced to children via adults.
Impressionable children, at 4-years old, should not be exposed to this.
When they become teenagers/adults, it's a very different question indeed.
In my view, gender doesn't even exist. It's a personality stamp and nothing more. No need for labels at all.
You can be an effeminate male and you are no less male for being effeminate. What's wrong with the current discussion is that effeminate males are saying that they're not males at all. That's very exclusionary. If anything, the same people should promote that you can be an effeminate male and be proud of it, rather than running away and inventing your own label / or calling yourself a "she".
Oh get over yourself. Reading comprehension fail? You've still failed to directly address my points.. while claiming that you have. Which you haven't.
I have not made up anything about your posts, and I have no interest chasing you until you do deal with what was written.. there's no value in doing so.
It's fine. As I said to another poster I tend to ignore posters who make ad hominems/snide remarks, and I will return to ignoring you.
Then when you say a little girl can't be a little boy, is that besed on the child's biological sex or gender?
Would you say the same about an adult woman being a man? If not, why does the distinction - and JUST the distinction - change?
Can you use the same logic to justify arguing against multiculturalism, BLM protests, climate change activism, footballers protesting against racism, people who advocate for women on a variety of topics, suggestions that police should be held accountable for how they do their jobs etc etc.
Because its the consistency of positions of conservatives against the majority (and seemingly 100% of anything that is rumored to be woke) that I find interesting and asked about. Oh, and why they don't ever appear interesting in advocating for anything that might make life better, even for themselves is also curious to me.
Sidestep? Another reading comprehension fail. I DIRECTLY addressed your point about parents influencing their kids re: pronouns in my post. I said that as children have ideas about their gender and are aware of pronoun usage they do not need to be influenced to think that certain pronouns need to be used for themselves without any input from parents.
Why are you constantly making up false things about my posts.
Twice you've claimed I've directly stated things and have been unable to quote where I said them.
And now you claim I sidestep a point I directly dealt with.
Bizarre.
Change isn't always a positive, and sometimes (quite often) keeping to the Status Quo is far better than making short-sighted changes. After all, in many cases, the traditional systems have worked extremely well in westerns society for the majority.
Unsurprisingly, many people are protective towards small children. And rightly so.
Just as you're entitled to be a bigot, although you'll never accept your behavior as being such. Since you have a crusade to promote, regardless of the negatives for the people involved. It's a social movement due to the demands for rights in society, and as with feminism, or a dozen other social movements, there doesn't need to be a central organisation involved.
The first problem with the trans movement is their advocates who feel the need to be hyper aggressive whenever they receive any opinions that don't match their own, or involve criticism of Trans issues overall. The second problem being that "Trans" is an umbrella terms encompassing a bewildering wide range of beliefs, and expectation of "rights", while being subject to internal change every few months. And third, that there are real serious negatives for both the psychological and physical aspects of lives for those who seek to transition. However, that will be ignored.
I've also seen a wide variety of social change (in spite of my apparent lack of knowledge and insight, although how you know this is a mystery). I know the changes in regards to homosexuality firsthand due to my own sexuality and place in society... and in spite of the constant desire by trans advocates to say that they're similar causes... they weren't. Not even close. The Trans movement is something else entirely.. and should be treated as such. We should be cautious about embracing it, and the changes it brings, until we have better long-term research to determine just how dangerous it could be.
But that's not going to matter to advocates like yourself. You want change now, and that's it. No negotiation. Everyone else must capitulate to accept your beliefs.
As for As hominens, I rarely bother to complain about them, unless they're particularly nasty. Mostly, I just stop dealing with the poster involved.
Again there is no education around pronouns in the Scottish guidance.
That first line is the sidestep. I've said it enough times, and you keep ignoring it. For children that age to be aware of pronouns to the extent of wanting to change them, then someone would be explaining the concepts behind them. And that pushes an agenda. It also opens up those children to further Trans concepts because the conditioning is allowed to begin so early.
I'll leave it at that because I've responded to you numerous times and you've repeatedly ignored my points.
Interesting you say that, I have identified the collective groups we see behave this way on here as being members of the Status Quo fan club for that very reason.
And unsurprisingly, none of them have made any attempt to answer the question.
I think gender and sex are completely different.
Can you give me your understanding of gender and tell me how many genders there are?
With all due respect that's BS!
'Because it's a social movement with serious effects on peoples long term psychological and physical well-being... and has serious connotations for how society develops.'
Utter rubbish. What social movement? Who are 'they'? Is there an actual organisation who are orchestrating this so called 'social movement'
Quote 'When such a small number of people can enforce a range of changes on the majority.. then, questions should be asked...'
Enforce????? Who are these powerful people 'enforcing changes on the majority' ? They don't exist, that's your imagination.
I've been reading and hearing crap like this on every subject since the sixties. It was TV, mini skirts, women's rights, video games and everything.
Then you say 'I could go on, but there's little point. The manner of your post already judged anyone who disagreed with you on this topic.'
'especially when people like yourself, seek to stifle criticism or debate by throwing around terms like bigotry.'
Classic sophistry. I haven't stifled your debate or criticism. I'm pointing out the absurdity of your position. You are entitled to be a bigot. I'm entitled to point that out.
Of course I could be wrong and you actually believe you have a reasonable and fair minded attitude to this issue despite your obvious utter lack of knowledge and insight.
You clearly know nothing about what you speak of. But yeah it's a free country. Go for it.
Oh yes should you accuse me of ad hominen. I didn't target you, in fact I haven't even noticed your username. I merely pointed out the absurdity of of the so called opinions of people like you.
.
Well if you think gender and biological sex are the same thing then fair enough. That would mean transgender people don't exist at all.
Bullshit conflation of trans issues with homosexuality.
Sexuality and people's opinions of it have changed.
Biology won't.
No I wouldn't. More inventing fantasies.
The problem is that she isn't.
She shouldn't be treated as that she is.
Especially by an authority figure.
**** hell. Why is that so hard to understand?
20 years ago, you'd be claiming trans issues would never involve children.
If a little girl wants to say she is a little boy, what's the problem? It is probably a phase and she will grow out of it.
If is a real transgender issue it can be dealt with later.
No one is talking about hormone treatment or surgery for 4 year olds.
Reminds me of attitudes years ago if you discuss homosexuality with kids, you will be creating gay children.
Right well I'll wait around for the 4 year old horse bestiality movement. Any day now...
Nah, I don't think I did.
Slippery slope taviststock institute already publicly stated that they have treated 4 year old children ,
The clinic that was handing out puberty blockers to vulnerable children and coaching children how to ask to get puberty blockers ,the idea of a 4 year old picking up a doll and saying I'm a Barbie more than a Barry and suddenly a teacher is going to socially transition them is utterly wrong ,it's not a early years educator Job to transition a child or a primary school teacher for that matter ,
A tiny minority demanding and claiming every class room has several kids who are trans based off anonymous LGBTQ teachers and union it's utterly false and misleading ,and over reaching ,
Guarantee we will get several posters who will claim I knew 3 trans kids in school and another will say they knew more ,yet nothing ever is backed up
If a child did want to describe the sky as green, would you acknowledge that they may be right and their reality is equally as valid as yours so it is unfair to say that the sky isn't green?
It's no more ludicrous than letting a little girl believe they can be a boy.
I think you just proved my point about how silly slippery slope arguments are. Thanks.
Again there is no education around pronouns in the Scottish guidance. It simply states that if a child requests pronouns that the teacher respects that request. You've assumed any pronouns request comes from an adults influence but have not shown that in any way to be likely. We know children display ideas around gender and they clearly know that "he" is used for boys and "she" is used for girls. Of course a child does not need adult input to want to be referred to by certain pronouns. Again it only doesn't make sense if you think that children are blank slate dummies until the age of 10 and then magically develop reasoning skills.
I said that children have declared their gender in the past. You said that I asserted that the numbers were not miniscule. So the quote you provided shows you made that up. I never made any claims about numbers. I made a claim about past existence. It's not a sly dig to point out your low comprehension skills. It's an obvious fact.
I never said that children have not seen other children's genitals or associate particular genitals with particular sex/gender. You said that a child's understanding of sex/gender was completely based on biology. If that were true then a child would be unable to tell who was a boy or girl without seeing their genitals first. But that's not the case so a child's understanding is not completely based on biology.
By birth gender do you mean sex?
I feel like a parrot repeating myself but people seem to continually say sex and gender are completely separate but yet conflate the two when it suits.
Yet here we are discussing if 4 year old children can be mature enough to make hugely damaging decisions regarding their sexuality with full "progressive" support.
Honestly, I wouldn't be making bets against bestiality and incest being the next "progressive" civil rights liberation of our lifetimes. If a 4 year old child can consent, why not a 4 year old horse?
Slippery slopes are the least legitimate ideas going. Remember how after gay marriage were supposed to have people marrying horses and brothers marrying?
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