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Ban the Poppy

Ramasun

We're getting near that time of year, where our political correctness leaps into accepting the poppy.

It's a symbol which has lost any neutral stance since the blanket amnesty for crimes by British soldiers in Northern Ireland.

I now see it as a provocative and divisive icon for English nationalists.

I don't think it should be allowed in Ireland.

Am I being too sensitive about it?

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Kaybaykwah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787985#Comment_117787985

A hundred thousand poppies for a hundred Euros on AliBaba.

overshoot

Would agree with others than a ban on it, well it's frankly rediculous. If we didn't watch so much British TV this wouldn't even be a debate!

Just because the British legion has expanded its meaning doesn't mean that is true for every country, for many the basis remains the WWs.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804723#Comment_117804723

There's a lot more than just NI as regards the british army.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784839#Comment_117784839

Your father and his comrades service notwithstanding, about 99.5% of the people who died in WW2 were not British. WW2 should not be defined by the British experience, and the Poppy should not be defined in terms of the Northern Irish experience (as you say).

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205125/ban-the-poppy

There are many Irish who wore both a poppy and an Easter Lily, including my great-grandfather. They/he saw no contradiction between these two memorials. The poppy was for his comrades who died in the field of battle in WW1. The Lily was supporting his comrades who died fighting for Irish freedom (up to, during, and after, the Rising).

Self-centred and / or weak-minded people and groups who think a symbol that means something to "them" should mean the same to "everyone" should be ignored, especially politicians who try and politicise these memorials. A Lily doesn't mean you love the party Sinn Fein. A Poppy doesn't mean you love Brandon Lewis and the amnesty.

AudreyHepburn

Anyone that spends their time and energy getting offend and angry over the wearing of the poppy really needs to take a good hard look at themselves.

Oh and maybe brush up on their history while they’re at it.

In 2014 we went as a family to Ypres in Belgium where as a young man my great grandfather fought in World War I. He was a bombardier, a machine gunner in the British army and we wee there to follow in his footsteps on the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Ypres in which he fought.

To this day the most abiding memory I have is of rows and rows of little white headstones laid out across the countryside. Tyne Cott cemetery in particular stands out.

In particular we were struck by the number of Irish men lying there. We even found the graves of men from my great grandfather’s regiment.

My great grandfather made it home but he lost a leg to shrapnel wounds. He was one of the lucky ones. So many of his countrymen and comrades didn’t.

I bought a pair of poppy earrings on that trip and I wear them each year in remembrance of all those young Irishmen who never made it home.

Thats my choice and I stand by it. If you don’t wish to wear the poppy then so be it but you have absolutely no right to criticise those who do.

And calling for an outright ban is just over the top.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784839#Comment_117784839

Why would we speak German?? The Germans lost and they don't speak US english or Russian.

[Deleted User]

I dont think they should ban it....but i certainly wouldnt hold anyone whom wear it in much esteem either

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788081#Comment_117788081

I believe what some of the replies are getting at is that some of us are ambivalent to the nationality of the imperialist invaders we are to judge. Be they German, British or Ottomans , it's all the same to me. We can find a history of atrocities, concentration camps and genocide in both British and German history. We can retrospectively assume full knowledge of the Holocaust when Britain went to war in WW2 but that was nothing to do with why they did so. A lot of people see a moral equivalence between these powers who simply worked in their own selfish interests, despite the propaganda that both espoused. I agree though, that we should be free to express ourselves which includes wearing a poppy or whatever else.

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788454#Comment_117788454

Why not include both World Wars? As well as the obvious motivations for these wars there was also the imperial dimension. These were imperial wars as well. You've given three examples of imperial behaviour in your post. In past poppy threads Britain's imperial history has sometimes been included in the argument. I suggested to one critic of the poppy appeal that one solution was the abandonment of the RBL appeal altogether, since any commemoration can only include that imperial history. I also added that this could apply to any state that commemorated or even celebrated a past that was less than 100% fault free.

FrancieBrady

The debate in this country should not centre around the poppy.

It should be about finding a way all sides in a divided country can remember their dead and those they believe made sarcrifices for them, respectfully.

Because if we don't the divisions remain to fester.

overshoot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785532#Comment_117785532

Let's not pretend Hitler was the only one with concentration camps, Churchill has his in the Boer war where he wrote "my only lament is whites are being shot by Kaffirs". There was also the million people put into concentration camps in Kenya by the British post ww2, the denial policy leading to 1-3 million dead in the Bengal famine during ww2. That's a bit more than a shell in the north.

Still, was Britain the lesser of 2 evils there, definitely but let's not pretend either that history isn't written by the victor and things shouldnt be questioned. Both sides had their propeganda machines

As you said yourself, the poppy was "originally" for the world wars, the British legion has expanded it to all wars and frankly dirtied it for those with no direct link. Even James McClean has said if it was just for the world wars he'd wear one

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788288#Comment_117788288

I've never felt any pressure to wear one - some years I've bought one, some years I haven't. Most years it usually ends up in the glove compartment in my car. Outside of the media I doubt it's an issue for the majority. Nothing is said, no fuss is made. The RBL Appeal is used by some as a device, a tool to highlight other issues - an elliptical way of making a point.

Dave0301

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788231#Comment_117788231

It doesn't bother me, it just makes it seem ubiquitous. If you read my post properly it explicitly says it isn't a big deal for me.

There are examples of presenters and sports personalities getting abused for not wearing it though which goes some way in explaining why people do feel they may have to wear it.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788169#Comment_117788169

If tv presenter wearing it bothers you then there is always a choice to change channels 🤷‍♂️

Dave0301

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788153#Comment_117788153

Articles about James McClean for example, although he can be antagonistic about it.

Every news show presenter wears one for weeks before hand, which is not a big deal of course.

Like I said, I don't have any strong feelings about the poppy either way but get a sense that it can be an expectation rather than a choice at times.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788128#Comment_117788128

I live in England

I have never had an email about buying/wearing a poppy, I work.for the British M.O.D and there has never ever been anything said to anyone I know about wearing/not wearing a poppy.

"It's in the media" how?

I wear one but have often gone out without one, I have never been asked where my poppy is.

Dave0301

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788080#Comment_117788080

Where I work there are emails about buying/wearing the poppy. It is on the media for weeks before it. There are usually articles about how it gets disrespected etc.

I personally don't wear one and have people ask me several times around November why not.

It doesn't bother me but it feels contrived, but can understand why it means a lot to people.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787367#Comment_117787367

The poppy was originally in commemoration of those British and allied soldiers who fought and lost their lives in WW1, and has also been co-opted in meaning for those who also died in WW2. Your whataboutery and mission creep don't sway me, particularly as my father served in WW2 and my grandmother's brother died, aged 18, in WW1. The attrocities in NI amount to perhaps a single shell going off in WW1 or 2.

Here's to the grand unkle I never knew and who died way too young - from the Roll of Honour:

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788058#Comment_117788058

We hear this every year on here, how is it "forced down your throat"?

Dave0301

No issues with people wearing the poppy or not wearing it.

The obsession with it around early November time is a bit much though and it does seem to get forced down your throat if you are in the UK or consuming British media.

corner of hells

For a moment , I thought the Taliban were going to ban Onlyfans.

biko

Banning it for everyone seems excessive OP.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784839#Comment_117784839

If it wasn't for the terrible atrocities committed in Ireland by the British and English armies over many centuries, we might be speaking Irish. This is the same army you want to honour?

As far as I know, the money collected goes to current members of the british forces, including those who committed atrocities in NI from 1960's.

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786546#Comment_117786546

That was it's original meaning - but I take your point. I wasn't being critical of your post - I thought it was evenly balanced.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785401#Comment_117785401

Wer sagt, dass wir kein deutsch sprechen!

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785571#Comment_117785571

There was NEVER a single moment in the timeline of either world wars where there was a danger of anyone in Ireland "speaking German". Unless they learnt it themselves. The "you'd be speaking German now if it wasn't for my Grandad" is a load of old bollocks.

That being said, I'd be highly sceptical of anyone wearing a poppy in the Republic of Ireland, who didn't serve. But it's not something that I'd really care that much about. I'd be more inclined to ask of their reasons why and then bore the shit out of them for the next 4 hours going on about the war.

They'd never wear it again. 😆

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786410#Comment_117786410

It might, but that’s not how it’s interpreted or talked about by its fan club. They continue to glorify war.

Solemn commemoration is one thing, but it tends to go off into militarism and celebrating in a very nationalistic way. The more Brexit like politics has developed the more over the top that has become.

You're now seeing a generation waffling on about the glories of wars they couldn’t possibly remember, as they were born in the peacetime that followed.

jt69er

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784626#Comment_117784626

If I could thank this post 1000 times I would.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784585#Comment_117784585

........