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Child Item

Bob Dylan Sex Abuse Allegation

[Deleted User]

I'm a huge fan of Bob Dylan so I've very mixed emotions posting this- I suppose let's see how the legal process plays out. The allegation relates to an event that took place over 55 years ago- 1965. Like any sex abuse allegation, it's obviously a challenging case for all but more so in this case, given the passage of time.

A lawsuit, filed Friday, alleges the Nobel laureate plied a girl with drugs and alcohol and abused her over six weeks in 1965

The lawsuit alleges that the Times They Are A-Changin’ singer “befriended and established an emotional connection with the plaintiff”, identified in Manhattan supreme court papers, obtained by the Guardian, only as “JC” and groomed her over the course of six weeks in April and May 1965.

The suit, filed late Friday on behalf of JC, now a 68-year-old woman living in Greenwich, Connecticut, alleges that Dylan, then 23 or 24 years old, “exploited his status as a musician by grooming JC to gain her trust and to obtain control over her as part of his plan to sexually molest and abuse” her.

According to the complaint, Dylan established a “connection” with JC to “lower her inhibitions with the object of sexually abusing her, which he did, coupled with the provision of drugs, alcohol and threats of physical violence, leaving her emotionally scarred and psychologically damaged to this day”.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/aug/16/bob-dylan-accusations-sexual-abuse-lawsuit

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irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776493#Comment_117776493

The claim i read is that he groomed her, abused her and threatened her physically multiple times over a six week period in April and May. And that it occurred in New York. If he wasn't in the country in May then it makes that claim impossible. Maybe she misremembered dates and he did all this in March and April.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776524#Comment_117776524

That would certainly be true if anyone had claimed (and could evidence) that he wasn't in the country during April and may. So, has anyone claimed he wasn't in the country during that time period?

Lads, the story is growing legs in front of our eyes. This is the kind of thing we need to beware of.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776543#Comment_117776543

I haven't said he wasn't there in April. I am focussing only on May. And there is a lot of claims that he wasnt in the country in May.

I edited to take out the last line as it was unnecessarily narky.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776551#Comment_117776551

There are claims that he wasn't there in May. But as yet all we have is claims that he was probably covered all the time in Europe. There is a claim that the documentary crew was following him. Did the documentary crew actually cover him every day or just the highlights? It might be easy to think a documentary crew would follow the subject every day but it would be naïve to assume that's how these things actually work. The claim that he was not in the USA during May is not based on robust evidence. Just a claim and an assumption.

Will someone tell me what's so wrong with admitting we don't have a clue what happened and just waiting for the investigation?

PMBC

Posters here have queried why this claim was made now/so late/so long after the event. From what I read, but I havent checked, it was the last date that the claim could be made under US law. Which could explain that issue.

I like BDs music but think he is a bit of a p***k and treated some people badly not giving credit to the originator of the treatment of House of New Orleans for example. Treated Baez badly. Probably part of the personality which brought such brilliance. I wouldnt go to see him perform as it would interfere with my memory of the songs in their original released versions.

Guilty or not? Dont know.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776596#Comment_117776596

Of course we don't have a clue. None of us were there. We can only talk about the details that have been released so far.

But why would you come onto a thread about this if you don't want to discuss it until after the investigation is finished.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776653#Comment_117776653

Ah no. I'm pushing back on exaggerated claims and misinformation. I don't think we should make exaggerated claims or misinform.

The timeline is useful, but it doesn't rule out the allegations. And it's being used to rule out the allegations. I've pushed back on the timeline being used for that, which is think is pretty reasonable.

head82

As a long time Dylan fan, I so much want these allegations to be false. And as an admirer of the man and his music, I'm finding myself quick to jump to his defense and dismiss the accusations as a money grabbing exercise or some unknown reason to smear his good name. But as the timeline of when these events allegedly took place seem to conflict with the well documented movements of Dylan during that period of 1965, I can't help but think.. 'why would someone concoct an accusation of abuse during this period knowing their dates would be subject to severe scrutiny?'

I mean, if it is a money grabbing attempt, they could so easily have picked 1967 for example ( Dylan fans will know this is a less documented period in his life as he had just recovered from a motorcycle accident and was off the scene for the most part ) and the accuser would still be underage.

In a bizarre way, that 1965 timeline might just lend credibility to the accusers allegations. Providing their lawyer can back up the specific dates with solid evidence.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769462#Comment_117769462

Well, he doesn't use his real name. Always a sign of a dodgy character. 😄

Seriously though, I couldn't give a tinkers cuss about Bob Dylan. I consider him one of the most overrated musicians that has ever held a guitar. I'm definitely not a fan. But this type of allegation is frankly absurd. Waiting around for half a century and then deciding "you know what...now's the time to let everyone know!"

Don't know if I can see this going anywhere though. There'll be zero evidence and zero proof. Just someone's word against someone else's.

That's not to say that during the 60's/70's that rock stars wouldn't have had some dodgy dalliances. It was practically a free for all for the famous and wealthy and some woman were, literally, throwing themselves at anyone with a name and a band. Pamela Des Barre's book from the 90's I remember being a bit of an eye opener in that regard.

blackbox

Where were the parents of this 12-year old girl?

Is she suing them too (for not looking after her)?

[Deleted User]

I hope it doesn’t end this way:

Here's the story of the Hurricane

The man the authorities came to blame

For somethin' that he never done

Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been

The champion of the world

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775857#Comment_117775857

Saville, literally, had decades of allegations and rumour following him around. He was always extremely careful, of course, and nobody actually "knew" anything. But there definitely was always something about him that a lot of people at the Beeb and elsewhere suspected.

The same cannot be said for Dylan.

This may well be true, but it's going to be impossible to prove - either way I might add, which is why such an allegation is so damaging. But if Dylan did have a preference for girls of that age, he would have been unable to have hidden it for so long really. And if it was a once off, it an extremely odd once off that doesn't make any sense at all.

The Raging Bile Duct

Don't know if this has been posted already

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bob-dylan-assault-accusations-timeline_n_611beb8fe4b0ff60bf7a46ad?ri18n=true

Heylin said he can’t figure out when any meetings between Dylan and the accuser could have taken place.

“It’s not possible. Dylan was touring England during that time, and was in Los Angeles for two of those weeks, plus a day or two at Woodstock,” in upstate New York, Heylin told HuffPost. “The tour was 10 days, but Bob flew into London on April 26 and arrived back in New York on June 3.”

“If Dylan was in New York in mid-April, it was for no more than a day or two,” he added. “Woodstock was where he spent most of his time when not touring. And if he was in NYC, he invariably stayed at his manager’s apartment in Gramercy, not the Chelsea.”

Heylin also said the singer didn’t start living at the Chelsea Hotel until autumn of that year.

The Raging Bile Duct

Here's one of the lawyers representing her:

https://nypost.com/2013/08/20/manhattan-gop-leader-isaacs-caught-on-fbi-tape-entertaining-30g-bribe-from-agent-pol-whines-i-have-never-been-charged/

Sleepy

I certainly wouldn't discredit the idea that the girl may have been abused by someone pretending to be Bob Dylan. I can remember mates out on the pull in the day that convinced grown women they were dolphin trainers so some predator being able to convince a child that he was a famous rock star doesn't seem unlikely at all (particularly when you consider the relatively low resolution of television and print media at the time ).

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777176#Comment_117777176

Ah yes- the mud throwing has started. I do love the American justice system.

While we might complain about Ireland and its treatment of abuse victims at least throughout the investigation the names of both parties would remain anonymous, a file would be submitted to the DPP and proceedings issued if applicable - American justice system is a circus from start to finish

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776350#Comment_117776350

The level of investment there in Dylan's life is off the charts alright. There's grown men there saying they can't sleep since the allegations were made.

I mean, I like the guy and I think the timeline shows there's inconsistencies with her story but if he's guilty it is what it is, he should be punished same as anyone else.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777195#Comment_117777195

At first that seems like an outrageous idea, or a great idea for a movie script, but now you have me wondering whether there are cases of people actually doing that kind of thing back in those days.

But wasn't her mother known to Dylan? Perhaps she has evidence of that.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777808#Comment_117777808

Where did you hear her mother was known to BD? I posted way back that I assume her mother was known to him but purely on the basis that you wouldn’t normally expect a 12 year old girl hanging out with rock stars on her own - albeit I know Mandy Smith @ 13 is an exception

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774433#Comment_117774433

your post obviously 🤷 whats wrong with you ?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117778035#Comment_117778035

Hmmm.. that was probably where I picked it up. I haven't researched much of anything about this story, TBH.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117778299#Comment_117778299

Fair enough- there’s not much to go on at the time of posting only what the newspapers are reporting - which isn't a whole lot other than the headline story.

OMM 0000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117778284#Comment_117778284

You make up something about me, when I point it out you double down instead of admitting what you're doing. How weak and pathetic.

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777267#Comment_117777267

The accuser remains anonymous as far as I can tell. The lawyer though seems to be a complete shyster who was embroiled in a bribery scandal that brought down several prominent Republicans in the New York area. I don't see what the problem is in highlighting this.

The Mighty Quinn

To all the detectives here swinging in about dates and how things don't tally up... if amateur sleuths on an Irish forum can pick up inconsistencies and poke holes in it, do you not think perhaps you're all working off partial information, that the accuser's legal team have done their homework on this and when the time comes can present a case that is at least a possibility?

Whether it happened or not we'll probably never know, which is a crying shame for her if he's guilty and a dirty undeserved stain on his legacy if he's innocent of it.

The only way I can see this gaining any real traction is if we've a Bill Cosby situation where you suddenly find there's a number of women emerging claiming similar.

The Mighty Quinn

Also, as a sidenote, I just realised that my username is the title of Manfred Mann's cover of Dylan's "Quinn The Eskimo".

tylercheribini

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777788#Comment_117777788

He was always treated by many with a Christ-like reverence , I never understood it myself.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117779358#Comment_117779358

Sorry My comments weren’t directed at you or your post- I was referring more just in general to the typical circus that goes on pre court proceedings in general in full public glare of the media where lawyers defendants and aledged victims all go through a series of mud slinging exercises designed to discredit the other side.

I wonder will the alleged victim always remain a Jane Doe or does she have to be named at some point? This is some pressure she’ll take on if she is named- every aspect of her life will be scrutinised - people will be found from her past who will be encouraged to confess to all sorts- with an appropriate fee for their trouble-the newspapers will be relentless in their pursuit of a story- any story.

tylercheribini

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777039#Comment_117777039

Due to the sheer volume of accusations, in all likely hood Savile was guilty of his crimes. I just find it incredibly hypocritical, though, that the same court of public opinion that condemned him without trial is using the presumption of innocence argument to defend Dylan. We already know of David Bowie and Robert Plants "once-off" trysts with an underage Lori Maddox, so its not beyond the realms of possibility Dylan dabbled, however briefly, in this field too.

It is no coincidence this accusation against Dylan comes a year after he is flush from selling the rights to his back catalogue though.....

[Deleted User]

Stinks of shyster lawyers tbh.

Also if he was away for a month of the 6 weeks then to get into semantics I don't think people who go on holidays for 2 weeks often say "I was in Spain over a 6 week period".