Taliban not big music buffs, by all accounts. Maybe they can be persuaded to make an exception for such 'patriotic ballads'.
I feel really sorry for women and minorities under the new rulers and think there are questions to answer about the chaotic manner of the US exit but overall think it was inevitable.
I remember the same sort of people saying all the Syrians fleeing should be sent back to fight etc. It's such an inhumane attitude from people who are living in safety and really bugs me.
Fandymo, have you ever been in Afghanistan? Look at N korea, one man ( and sister ) controlling a whole Country of 25+million people.China another example of literally billions being controlled by a ridiculously small nr of people? Its easy to control people when you have the power of life and death over them. And thats exactly what the Taliban have now over Afghans. They are not cowards, and thats for sure. I would not blame them for escaping while they can. They know full well what the Taliban are like.....and the description does not contain the words "Peace and Love".
I do get why the ANA collapsed completely without offering any resistance, incredible and all as it is and hard to believe. I don't quite get how there was essentially zero opposition to the Taliban from any other local warlords and their militias.
Homeland Season 8, set amid discussions between the Afghan Govt and Taliban, was released last year and although fiction it's fascinating and impressive how closely it was mirroring developments at the time - even long after it had wrapped up filming.
Can't wait for the Afghan Wolfe Tones to emerge after the war.
"Go on home US soldiers".
"Come out you Pashuns"
" The broad black Turban"
All sure to be big hits in 2022
The problem is, I think, is that most people on the ground in Afghanistan never believed in the project that was the central Afghan government under the U.S.A. To them, it was just the administrative puppet of a foreign occupier and certainly not something they were prepared to lay down their lives for.
Well an estimated 60K Afghani soldiers have died battling militants over the last 20 years so I don't know is it that simple. Though I suppose those soldiers probably behave very differently when they've got US commanders on the ground 'motivating' them
Yesterday you said Biden should resign. Such a resounding about turn by you.
Yup, and its exactly whats happening today with the Afghan military. What most people dont understand about that ( and other ) part of the world, is that for the majority of the population, each day is a struggle for survival. The rains dont come, the harvest is bad, the Cow dies, food is scarce, its a hard life. No job? No money..no money -no food,, Family suffers. Its that basic. And in Afghanistan, most of the population is rural based, and not in the cities. Cultivating the poppy is a major ( and sometimes the only ) income generating source. So for many, a job in the military ( even Taliban) is not borne out of a particular wish to serve or defend the country, its a way of earning money. And is definitely not in the plan to die ( and therefore leave the family with out a breadwinner )
Why don't you go over there and give them a hand? It'll be like Rambo III.
Option B, in most cases, but there's always that one guy who said he'd been in the forces or whatever. Anyway, this situation has been played out before. How much military resistance did the Taliban put up to the initial U.S. invasion? Very little, really, and the country was under U.S. control within 2 months. Were Taliban fighters cowards for running away or defecting? Same thing with the Saddam's Republican Guard. The amount of actual resistance they put up was pathetic in comparison to how much they had been bigged-up over the years. They all pretty much ran off as well.
I agree with the idea of leaving Afghanistan to its own devices. So long as the Taliban don't allow the country to become a hotbed of Islamic terrorism, no-one really cares what they do, and even if they do let training camps be set up, there's always drones to make them think twice.
Tiocfaidh sharia law
Their slogan being Tiocfaidh Allah!😛
Sorry, was just remembering off the top of my head that it was about Afghanistan. Forgot the time line in the movie
Maybe it's this bit of the Taliban statement that means they now will enjoy some acceptance from the US:
The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is not interested in anyone's private property, (not in anyone's cars, not in anyone's land and houses, not in anyone's markets and shops), rather it considers protection of lives and properties of the nation its primary responsibility.
Private Property being the foremost right in the eyes of the US
Perhaps they were civilians without weapons training.
I've no idea how I'd react in the situation they are in but I suspect I'd want to survive and get out.
I wonder would you be all Rambo in a real crisis or is it just bravado from behind a keyboard?
20 years is some wait though especially when you think there was no guarantee that the children in 2001 were going to follow you as adults when you decide to rise up in 2020
Seeing the cowardly Afghans run away and try to swamp planes, seeing the plane filled with 90% military aged men, makes me even more proud of the men and women of 1916 who stood up against an empire. The Afghans who fled don't deserve a country. Leave them at it. 80-100k Taliban in a country with almost 40m people. If the people had a backbone they could crush the Taliban, they chose to run away. Cowards.
It doesn't help that Trump actually talked up the Taliban and said they would be taking over
It shows they are smart.
No chance of winning so melt into the crowd and return to fight another day.
That strategy proved to be the correct one.
I don’t know how that indicates that the Afghan population are cowards for not fighting the Taliban.
When the Taliban were quickly pushed out of those areas back then, the US used huge amounts of air strikes that the Taliban did not know how to counteract. Standing and fighting against that would have been insane.
Yeah, they are some heros when they are "fighting" against women children and un armed men.... but on October 7th, the US began the war against the taliban, with a series of bombing's, and 1'000 US Special forces on the ground. These special forces join with the Northern Alliance, and etnic Pashtun anti-taliban forces. 19th Oct, main body of US forces begin to arrive. By 9th Nov. the Taliban have been driven out of Mazar-E-Sharif by forces loyal to Rashid Dostrum, an etnic Uzbek. Then in rapid sucession, on a single day, 11.11, Taloqan and Bamiyan, Herat on 12.11, Kabul 13.11, and Jalalabad on 14.11. Effectively this was the end of Taliban rule, even if they still controlled Kandahar. On the 14.11, UN Security council passes resolution 1378 calling for a central role in establishing a transitional administration. By Dec 17, all Taliban had been driven from Afghanistan, after the battles in the mountains of Tora Bora. ( In most of the fighting, inc, Tora Bora, it was Afghans who fought, and questions have been asked since as to why the Americans did not have more involvement in Tora Bora battle, in which Bin Laden is supposed to have escaped )
Most of the actual fighting in the early days was carried out by Afghans themselves, but supported by the US. Taliban were not so brave then, when fighting against committed opposition. I wonder back then just how many Taliban, abandoned their black turbans and AK47's and melted into the background? Or did they all make it back to Pakistan?
It was a fairly safe bet that the Afghan army were going to crumble like an 80 year olds hip. Everything american GIs said about them was that they were useless. Apparently the only people suprised by was the US government.
20yrs experience of watching them do it?
I also don't get how they people are surprised the US withdrew.
It's the sword no POTUS wanted to fall on, but the sword one would have to fall on eventually or else face the flip side of the criticism which was, "Why are we sending x number of soldiers to Afghanistan each year to risk their lives in a pointless foreign conflict?"
Of course Trump says that he would have handled the withdrawal better, but what else would anyone expect him to say? My suspicion is that if had been in charge during the withdrawal, he would have branded those still thronging on the ground to get on a plane as 'losers' and 'not very fit'.
I'm quite well aware of the slinging that goes on
Your not looking at from an American POV. Beyond the left and right media slinging at each other, there isn't much political capital here.
That's what makes Biden's core point so powerful.
As he said why should America hang around fighting Afghanistan's civil war when they don't want to fight themselves as proven?
It's a very compelling argument. He's done well getting that across.
I wonder if the crucial factor, the willingness of the government and army, to stand up to the Taliban, can only really be tested in the heat of battle. Everything probably seemed fine on the surface to the intel agencies but they couldn't get a real handle on that intangible thing in the Afghanis' heads.
Correction: According to journalist Ahmed Rashid, the Taliban adopted Deobandi and Islamist anti-nationalist beliefs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Ideology
Afghans traitionally hug each other when greeting, in that part of the world its common practice, and in Muslim Culture generally. Plus its the newer softer version "for the camera " Taliban. Or the "Doha" model., if you prefer. There are other versions creeping out too, of the real Taliban. and they don't involve hugs.....and for sure they will kill selected members of the ANA ( and others ) but killing a lot of ordinary soldiers, who were only in it for the salary, will certainly stir up a hornets nest of angry relatives and friends of those killed. And bear in mind, every Afghan is a member of a clan / tribe, and they have very long and unforgiving memories. And thats one reason that the Talibs have already started collecting arms....an unarmed population can't really pose much of a threat, but the very fact that they have given weapons collection a priority so early means that they recognise the threat armed civilians pose.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w5.vanillicon.com/v2/537bbc265950b8cc21b8f6f0fc11686b.svg)
