Lol
and then what? You want Harris or Pelosi in charge? Think that through a minute
Yes, and the other prevailing theory that majority of Afghans want the Taliban back... and the basis for this belief is the refusal of the Afghan military refused to fight.
Do you even know what "the buck stops with me" means?
But Trump struck a deal to withdraw by May 1st.
Here we are 3 months later.
How is that Bidens fault?? If anything he bought time but realised the Taliban had run out of patience.
Trump and his promise to withdrawl so hastily is the root cause of this mess.
This...in a nutshell.
FG and FF????
Go to bed man, seriously for your own good.
You have to be joking..have you seen the chaos at Kabul Airport?? And that's only a fraction of the nrs escaping or trying to escape across the borders of Iran, Pakistan, Turkmanistan, Tajikistan and Usbekistan. This evening I was speaking to an Afghan friend who has managed to get his Family across the border into Pakistan. He only managed it because he crossed 3 weeks ago, along with many more who could see what was comimg. He said that there's thousands more at the Pakistan border now trying to escape. Trust me, there's very few Afghans want to see the Taliban in power,,,their treatment of Afghans last time was horrendous, and they have not forgotten. As for my Friend, everything he spent his life working for, house, land, business is gone,and he is now a refugee. Believe me, if the surounding Countrys opened up their borders completely, there would be very few Afghans left in Afghanistan...they would be gone to escape tha Taliban.
That's a good synopsis. On the other hand what could they have done differently, would a slower or faster pull out have made any difference in reality?
They pumped serious resources into Afghanistan and as soon as they handed back to the Afghanis the whole place fell apart. I mean the Afghans had 20 years to become self sufficient here, if they were that poor organisationally, militarily and as corrupt as you outlined there, at what point do the US say "**** this, we are going nowhere with this crowd"
Seems like the country was always going to be there for the taking no matter what Biden did. They had to leave sometime and the Taliban would have been (and were) ready to pounce whenever that happened.
The Montenegro debt to China has, I believe, been bought out by the EU as of a month or two ago, but the point is well made.
640 people in a C-17
In the meantime, the Germans sent in an A400M, (About half the size). It flew out of Kabul with 7 people.
The Dutch didn't tell their Afghan embassy employees they were leaving. They buggered off, the employees figured it out when they showed up for work.
Usually used by people who are a bit mental, you mean. Free Assange with every packet of shreddies types.
I see the EU is already laying the groundwork on social media for what's to come....this time I don't think Europeans are willing to put up with a rerun of 2015.....no matter how many times they repeat diversity is our strength or some other meaningless slogan.
This is the most on point and astute comment I have read on this thread.
The idea that the Afghan forces were unwilling to fight and never lifted their weapons is an absolute nonsense. They have lost thousands of soldiers in recent times as the fighting intensified. The entire concept of the Afghan military - training, arms and operational doctrine - was built around the idea that they would receive continued US support for many more years. Trump completely upended this whole concept and Biden followed through on it. The rug was pulled from beneath the Afghan forces. The entire military became inoperable.
He did a **** job of it but history shows that resignation doesn't happen over an international clusterfcuk. It just doesn't happen.
Firstly its not 300k soldiers.
There were officially 300,000 Afghan troops, but the 300,000 included only 185,000 army troops or special operations forces under Defense Ministry control, with police and other security personnel making up the rest.
Barely 60 percent of the Afghan army troops were trained fighters.
A more accurate estimate of the army's fighting strength, once the 8,000 air force personnel are taken out of the equation, is 96,000.
However the Afghan army had to replace 25 percent of its force each year -- largely because of desertions -- and American soldiers working with the Afghans came to see this rate as "normal."
Secondly, the salaries of the Afghan army had been paid for years by the Pentagon.
But from the moment the American army announced its planned withdrawal in April, responsibility for those payments fell on the Kabul government.
Numerous Afghan soldiers have complained on social media that they not only have not been paid in months, in many instances their units were no longer receiving food or supplies -- not even ammunition.
Thirdly the Afghan army fighting alongside American troops was molded to match the way the Americans operate. The U.S. military, the world’s most advanced, relies heavily on combining ground operations with air power, using aircraft to resupply outposts, strike targets, ferry the wounded, and collect reconnaissance and intelligence.
In the wake of Biden’s withdrawal decision, the U.S. pulled its air support, intelligence and contractors servicing Afghanistan’s planes and helicopters. That meant the Afghan military simply couldn’t operate anymore.
When U.S. forces were still operating , the Afghan government sought to maximize its presence through the country’s far-flung countryside, maintaining more than 200 bases and outposts that could be resupplied only by air.
Once the air support went these bases were isolated.
The Taliban concentrated on overrunning the isolated outposts, massacring soldiers who were determined to resist but allowing safe conduct to those who surrendered, often via deals negotiated by local tribal elders. The Taliban gave pocket money to some of these troops, who had gone unpaid for months.
By the time the Taliban began their assault on major population areas this month, the Afghan military was so demoralized that it offered little resistance. Provincial leaders and senior commanders replicated surrender deals struck on the local level before. The elite commando units were one exception, but they were too few in number and lacked aircraft to move them around the country.
Biden should not have withdrawn the final troops when it was obvious that the Taliban had repeatedly reneged on the promises agreed under last years treaty.
Biden’s determination to adhere to the treaty without a well-planned military transition plan, emboldened the Taliban and hit the morale of the Afghan armed forces just as the country was beginning its fighting season.
The Taliban now have control of all the advanced weaponry the US provided.
Its been a catastrophic sequence of events and Biden has made a complete mess of it.
Completely agree, but it's the visuals that will be used against him
Fair enough. I took it to mean the whole $h1tshow
The poster was talking about the 'humiliation' of the withdrawal.
She might prefer to stay out there in that case.
Charlie Kirk and Peirs Morgan. Keep going you're doing great, next stop Tucker Carlson, Rudy Giuliany, Marjory Taylor Green and the My Pillow guy.
It will be totally forgotten next week. When the taliban were running Afghanistan back in the 90’s no one gave a tuppence ha’penny damn about Afghanistan.
The Nazis came and went.
The Cold War came and went.
international terrorism came next and now it pales in significance to pandemics and climate change fall out.
Thats where it’s at now for the next 20/30 years. Floods, droughts , virus control, wars over scarce diminishing resources .
Yes, I know how they operate....control without firing a shot. Its their Standard Operating Procedure. ( as several Countrys have found out, to their cost, like you say) But as many more before them have found out ( the US being the latest) Afghanistan is different. And the Taliban are a different kind of enemy. We will have to wait a bit now and see how it develops, but for now the Taliban are on a high having defeated the Great Satan as they see it, and feel that they can dictate terms.
They are very much to blame for stroking off that clown Bush whenever he clicked his fingers.
Everyone on here seems to be gunning for Trump or Biden but it was Bush and his dirty "war on terror" that landed both presidents and Obama in an unwinnable situation
Western countries need to stop interfering in these countries. Liberating them has never worked, all it does is create another stream of refugees for Europe to have to absorb and provide for.
What did you want him to do ????
Give some alternative options you could have suggested to biden or anyone else
I just can't believe that MIC would ever let idiots like Trump or Biden make significant decisions. There is too much at stake. The Presidential thing is a Punch and Judy show for the masses. So that whole discussion seems irrelevant.
How is it humiliating for 'the brits'? They had no part in this decision.
This is exactly what I argued well over an hour ago. And, despite the criticism received so far, it's no less true now.
Biden has presided over an absolute, unmitigated catastrophe, yet he wants to blame everyone else for the direct cause.
Trump, Biden and Obama were told numerous times the Afghan army were not up to it. Just reading today about how the Taliban didn't fight their way to Kabul, they negotiated their way there. Afghan army was in trouble without US backing and air force and once the US left only a matter of time before the Taliban took over, which is why those in control of the cities handed over the key so easily.
The Afghan army was 300,000 on paper. On paper is the key point. In reality only about 50,000 were up to it and the rest melted away at the first sign of trouble. US intel was shockingly bad on Afghanistan.
Reality is that a huge number of people in Afghanistan want to see the taliban back in power.
The US were right to leave..should have done it long before this. And the travesty of so many people losing their lives for nothing now is also a very bitter pill to swallow. If the Afghanis themselves arent going to fight for their own country what place has the US got there.
The only thing western countries can do now is negotiate with the taliban to maintain an orderly flow of refugees out of the country if they so wish and provide a safe place for them to stay. Of course, as we have seen with Syria..this is never going to happen unfortunately.
What would anyone go to Kabul on a holiday?
Getting visa would be next to impossible
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