That would make a great climatic movie scene but it's not reality. In the face of great odds all most people want to hunker down and survive for themselves and their families, not do a suicidal Rambo with a weapon they likely dont have to hand.
The Afghan army are a Farce of a Force.
The Taliban offered to hand Bin Laden over before and during Operation Enduring Freedom?
The optics of this a year into presidents Bidens first year as president is really bad.
He will be a lame duck now with the American public.
Was bin laden or rest of al qaeda leadership ever even in afganiatan.
Yeah the optics are terrible and the 'not one more year' line his administration is spinning doesn't seem to be cutting it on any of the news networks, irrespective of their traditional political leanings.
I think most US people understand and know that a withdrawal had to happen, but the manner in which it has happened has been haphazard and ill thought out. The likes of the below will come back to haunt Biden. He is likely praying that no US citizen is harmed during the disorderly withdrawl. Lets not forget how Benghazi essentially destroyed Hilary Clinton's career in public office.
Sending their troops out to fight and possibly die in a never ending quagmire halfway around the world. What American doesnt want that?
A lot of Americans died during the ill thought out original occupation. A lot of taxpayers dollars were spent.
I'm sure every American citizen wanted a withdrawal but not one that rendered the last 20 years a complete waste of life and money. Which is what it looks like.
Now it may have been a waste regardless of the type of withdrawal but I think regardless of that, Biden and the current administration have shown that they were unaware of the situation.
Which doesn't reflect well on them.
The ending of one of the "forever wars" is a popular decision. Having the entire country virtually collapse to the opposition two weeks before your troops were due out is a less desirable outcome. Having to dangle the possibility of aid or international recognition isn't exactly a powerful indication of a super power's clout.
This will go down as a defeat for the US in the war against the Taliban. That will be Bidens legacy now. No matter the right and wrongs of withdrawing, the manner of the withdrawal is embarrassing. Can’t put that all down to Biden though, there are deep problems.
No longer the "Policeman of the World in any respect". (Not behind a pay wall, I could read it free as one of three non subscriber articles.)
The Washington Post: Afghanistan's collapse leaves allies questioning U.S. resolve on other fronts.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/afghanistan-chaos-blame-us/2021/08/14/0d4e5ab2-fd3e-11eb-911c-524bc8b68f17_story.html
For a man who was supposedly a foreign affairs expert, Biden isn't learning from past mistakes. This is pretty much up there with actions his predecessor took but on a much larger scale. He is either getting poor advice or questions need to be asked of his competance, my bet is on the latter.
If he turns up in Ireland, I can only hope he is given a hostile reception
To be fair to the Yanks. Their original invasion was fully justified. A lot of people over the years (and especially this weekend) have been trying to whitewash 9/11, like they were not fully justified to go after the regime protecting Bin Laden.
They gave the Afghans 20 years to get their **** together and they didn't seem to want it. Society effectively wanted the Taliban back. If the Afghans didn't want the Taliban back they wouldn't have colluded with them for 2 decades and they most certainly would be putting up a fight to protect their towns and cities. But they cheer them in on their Toyota's, ready for the good times to come back.
As said in the thread, the Graveyard of Empires. The Soviet Union fell not too long after Afghanistan. The U.S is now a divisive mess, with China now the Big Boy in the Playground. I wonder will China ever have a pop. That would be interesting to see.
Some spectacular intelligence failures. Projected takeover from 18 months to 6 months, then 3 months. Suggestions of 4 weeks, now it seems to be a matter of days.
The president can only be as good as the advice he gets ultimately. If the joint chiefs told him a and b would happen how can he contradict?
At the end of the day the US can stay if it likes and smash the Taliban back but to what end?
Another 20 years trying to win hearts and minds?
Afghanistan has to evolve itself naturally. It is going back to the dark ages for now but the only hope is they can make progress and social change over time.
If they stayed he would be wrong. If he leaves he be wrong. No wining that.
Its costing the US a fortune and wearing out their military. Smart move was to get out of a unwinnable war.
Yes. like dominoes,,,,if ever there was a case of "Be carefull of what you wish for, in case you get it " this is it !!! Now we will see how Iran Pakistan and Russia control a heavily armed and agressive neighbour.... I know its case of "What If" the Pashtuns on the Pakistan side decide to join in the success ( ?? ) of the Taliban, and decise to re-align the borders? On the Tajik side, Putin has sent military support to boost border defences,
China will have a pop. They are asset stripping anywhere they go to feed their machine and expansion.
They will just exploit the place, build a railway to rip minerals out of it. In fairness its what empires did in the past.
Good post. No matter what people think of the US and it's decision to leave, the Afghan people had 20 years, billions of Dollars in aid, expert training and help from all over the world, in order for it to be able stand on its own and prosper. Still they chose corruption and being backward. This failure is their own making, nobody else's.
To be fair, I think we all saw it sliding back into chaos, just not so fast.
What and more important who, kept the Taliban active these last 20 years? Yes, Iran, Russia and Pakistan. In every clandestine way possible, they hit the Americans, a war by any other name. None of them wanted a stable and strong Afghanistan...now we will see how they deal with the Taliban, an organisation not associated with excessive use of the milk of human kindness.
Yep, was a matter of when rather than if.
The "Butterfly Munitions" you mention Gary,( cluster Bombs banned under the Geneva Conventions, but still in use by Countrys which did not signed the treaty) were dropped from a high flying aircraft in a "Mother" bomb, which was set to open at a predetermined height, dispersing hundreds of these mines /bombs all on little yellow parachutes, which gave them a greater spread. While the majority exploded on contacted, between 2%-20 % did not. They yellow color was meant to act as a warning and make them visible, but in a lot of cases attracted children with horrendous results. And even after the yellow fabric has disntegrated, the bomblets remain live, a simple action, such as casting a shadow on one, can cause them to explode. They kill / maim thousands of people every year, and not only in Afghanistan, but worldwide.
They'll just leave it there to fester. They'll throw money at its corruption to milk it for something. Its a no win game for anyone. Left them to it.
But cut off all aid.
There were only two options. Stay in and delay the inevitable, or get out and face the inevitable. There was never anything to be salvaged from this at this stage regardless who was in office. Partisan critics will jump at the chance of course, but there was no right option, and not even a "least worse" option, both actions would have resulted in the same outcome.
Kabul has basically fallen, it's just a formality now. The Taliban will put on a "we come in peace" act for awhile, start taking over administration, getting food to people, etc. Then the retribution and murders will start, seeking out traitors, etc. Then it will be fully back to 1996 in a matter of months, brutality and women everywhere in burqa's.
The thing with China, they don't give a **** about how you run your country and have no problems with working with anyone as long as it benefits them. The Taliban will be told not to support the Uyghurs and they'll build them a road or a train line. I note the Taliban control the corridor between Afghanistan and China. A place they didn't Pre-2001.
The Taliban won't give a hoot about the Uyghurs. They want to control Afghanistan. Al Qaeda or ISIS may be different.
As I write this post, I'm getting an pop up saying there was an Earthquake in Northern Afghanistan. Fun times.
Making sure the place looks well before the guests of honour arrive
China won't get involved in running the place. Just extracting what they need.
They’ve conceded Kabul already, madness how quick they got through the country.
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