Does anyone have a spreadsheet they use to keep track of buys / sell so they know there tax liability if they sell? Would you be willing to share?
Can we offset fees (transaction fees, d fees to wallets etc)
I've no idea, I've never tried. But I did have to reset my koinly and import all again it got messed up
Cheers. Do you know if I can import both the app and the exchange?
Koinly works fine for me but I manually download and import. The sync works with the exchange not the app
Koinly is breaking my heart here lads.
It will only allow me to import the crypto.com exchange and not the actual retail app where most buys/sells where done.
Huobi exchange - 'Huobi requires beta access'.
Any idea on how cashback on crypto.com is treated. Eg if i receive cashback of 500cro valued at 13c each and cash them out for fiat is that tax free.
How do I prove it was the cashback cro I exchanged verus cro I purchased.
Sounds like the person isn't normally tax resident in Ireland, so the tax would be rated and payable in the country of tax residency. I don't think that 3 year nonsense would have any bearing.
I'm not paying 50% and am bothered enough by Irish taxation I am planning to emigrate.
Arbitrage opportunities can arise on a geographical basis - and more often than not, countries with capital controls or restrictions of one type or another are implicated. The Kimchi premium in S.Korea is one example. In that case, the local price of bitcoin is higher than the international average. It's difficult to exploit though as it implicates the same banking difficulties...unless someone wants to walk cash out of the country - and of course that's not practical.
It is possible revenue could chase you for that, yeah. Especially if you're cashing out gains that are being funnelled through Irish crypto and bank accounts. No idea how likely this is though.
What is the arbitrage opportunity here? I'd be interested to hear, I live overseas too. Surely sending cash and crypto over and back to Ireland isn't the most efficient way of doing things?
The person has lived overseas for more than three years.
To your other point - re. effectively claiming residency through having the crypto account - that's correct - account is only available to someone who would ordinarily be resident in Ireland. So in fibbing to gain access to the account, the person would come to the attention of revenue - and would be pursued and taxed on the basis of being IRL resident regardless of any clarification provided?
So it may not be as simple an interpretation as - you were'nt straight with us on opening your account - we're closing it....rather ...the consequence is we ( revenue ) are now going to treat you as tax resident?
It is messy as the only way to exploit the arbitrage is to have a local account in Ireland.
Has this person lived overseas for at least 3 years?
If not, both ireland and their current country of residency would be interested.
If the person has left ireland more than 3 years ago, their current country of residence would be interested. Although having a crypto account in ireland with an irish address, would have the Irish revenue interested.
That's a messy enough situation though, somewhere along the line this person is claiming residency in ireland (using an Irish address with their Irish crypto account) and overseas (using their foreign address for overseas crypto account).
Trying to get my head round the tax implications of the following scenario.
In this scenario, what tax authority would have an interest in any gain made?
The small gains exemption is not transferrable - it never has been.
The crypto, however, is transferrable, and assets have always been transferrable between spouses with triggering CGT or CAT liabilities. So you can transfer to your spouse so much crypto as would include an accrued gain of €1,270, and your spouse can dispose of it - or not, as your spouse wishes; once you transfer it it's your spouse's asset, not yours.
That's a bit stupid, especially when exchanges don't allow joint accounts and the money Sepa transferred to the exchange from a joint account
I asked this before, and it seems unless the crypto was bought in both your names originally, you’ll have to transfer/gift her €1270 worth of crypto, which she can sell CGT free.
Bit of rigmarole, but obviously worth it.
Can I use my wife's cgt allowance to double the allowance?
One way to offset (not avoid) the tax is to buy stuff with big government grants. If you cash out 10k and pay 3300 in CGT. Then buy a 10k solar panel system. It will cost you around the 7k as there is a grant of around 3k. You at least get that tax back in a round about way.
You add equity in terms of home value. And A system that size then will easily generate over €500+ in after tax savings a year for the next 30+ years.
Electric cars also have a good 5k grant too.
Everyone keeps asking this as if CGT and cryptocurrency is some sort of special category of tax or asset that means Revenue won't ever find it or will accept whatever is declared. What are the odds? How will they know? Have a look at the quarterly publication lists for a small percentage of people who probably thought something similar. For peace of mind, just make your best effort to calculate your taxable gains based on the records you'll have access to if you try, and pay the CGT due based on your calculations. Don't just randomly take a guess and hope for the best.
As CG Tax is self assessed, how likely are revenue to come looking for proof of workings? I'm a long time trader and haven't really kept records. Thinking it will be easier to just 33% the final lump sum for convenience..
Thanks.
Taxes on your after tax income is nothing new. Vat is a prime example
Plenty of people are absolutely bothered by the 50% income tax band, but it can at least be justified since income is progressively taxed (but even this needs an overhaul as the threshold is too low and there should be at least one more tier). If you're working full time as well that's guaranteed income. The reason the 33% CGT is such an issue is because of the fact you're already taxed on your income you worked to earn and dedicated effort to be able to allocate to savings, and then you also took further time of your own to learn about investing. And then you use some of your savings which were already taxed upon earning, and get taxed again for simply being in your bank, and YOU take the risk with it by investing it, and if you've actually been smart and manage to succeed, you get shafted for a further 33% on the profit you managed to secure. All after a measly, insultingly low threshold. It's absolutely embarrassing how uncompetitive Ireland's CGT setup is.
Another thing that you weirdos that seem to be trying to justify this pathetic setup are missing is the fact that even with such a punitive setup, the idiots in power that keep this in place are only managing to collect a paltry ~€900m from CGT. You'd say something if it was contributing loads to the economy for how high it is, and if those paying it were well rewarded for their efforts, but it's not. It only accounted for 1.69% of the exchequer tax receipts in 2020, and the people paying this are likely excluded from the overwhelming majority of social supports for the honour of getting shafted. People always say it but we really do have Scandinavian level taxes without their high quality public services and infrastructure.
We should overhaul the whole thing, have a tiered setup so for example something like your first €15,000 profit is tax free, your next €15,000 is taxed at 10% and anything beyond that is taxed at 12.5%-15% max. Eradicate deemed disposal and jail whoever even came up with the thought of it and all that played a part in implementing it, and ensure that the overall process of declaring and dealing with the taxes is as streamlined and easy to sort as possible. Doing this would open up investing to far more people and make people more inclined to actually try, because anecdotally I know for sure the €1,270 threshold and 33% rate put people off bothering to try at all. Do everything we can to make investing savings and trying to grow wealth more accessible and realistically possible for average people. This should all be done in tandem with encouraging wealthy people to start and grow their own businesses, because once someone has extra money to spare they'll be in a much better position to seriously consider this as well and this is very important for growing our economy since it'll ideally create new jobs
You're looking at this the wrong way, Rob. Politically, the way this plays out is "I earn an extra €1,000 through the sweat of my brow doing extra shifts and pay tax of 40% on it; you earn an extra €10,000 doing fück all that's of any use to anybody, and pay tax of only 33%, and you're whingeing about it?"
Looking for tax breaks specifically for crypto trading is obviously a non-starter; a couple of attempts have been made on this thread to justify the notion but they are pretty incoherent and, when challenged, have not really been defended.
It might be easier to argue for tax breaks for capital gains in general, but "easier" doesn't mean actually easy. Politically, I think it would be a very hard sell on fairness/equity grounds.
Apologies for what I reckon might have been asked already but hoping someone might help me with this -
I understand the liability for CGT if you make a profit on crypto transactions but if your gains are well below the threshold (€1270?) and possibly even in the negative when you cash out do you still need to declare all the messing around to revenue despite being an experiment in the world of crypto (and just about breaking even?) with no intent on carrying on with this into the next year.
I suppose my other question is - will Revenue be told by exchanges like Binance and Crypto.com how much I've put into them or do they get a generic 'FGR has used our services!!!' alert without letting them know that I dabbled in less than 1k and not a crypto whale who needs auditing?
Has anyone filed for mining income? Does it fall under CGT or income tax? (gawwwwwd income tax is so much worse)
And some got gifted money and, via CAT rules paid ZERO tax
Because some of invested the net 50% of our salary and feel aggrieved having to pay another 33% tax of the profit we made.
Yes one common misconception is that many people think labour taxation in Ireland is very high comparatively to other countries. Whereas it actually is one of the lowest in Europe if you include employer social contributions, employee social contributions, and income tax. Page 9 on this document provides a detailed and documented comparison of labour tax burdens for an average worker in multiple countries: https://www.institutmolinari.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2021/07/tax_burden_on_global_workers2021.pdf
And if you were to include the effect of corporate tax which to some extend is an indirect tax on labour, then I suspect Ireland could be the lowest.
Having said that, I do not think that lowering the CGT rate would imply any significant rise in other taxes (maybe no rise at all).
The first reason is that CGT constitutes a very modest part of the government's tax receipts and consequently has a very limited impact on the overall tax picture. This can be verified on page 6 of this document: https://assets.gov.ie/118010/032dd0a9-fa96-4f7c-8e00-8542538d4812.pdf
The second reason is that as we already alluded to, lowering the rate wouldn't automatically mean that the amount of CGT collected by Revenue would drop, and it could even rise as a result (a lower rate tends to lead to more capital remaining in and entering the country, better compliance, and less tax optimisation).
In my opinion decisions on the rate aren't really about the money, and more about the political message the rate is sending.
Yes. Your gains are not taxable until you realize them. You have only one gain there, and you can deduct the small gains exemption for the year in which the gain is realized. Unused exemptions from previous years cannot be carried forward.
Nobody seems to be bothered paying over 50% income tax but have a problem paying 35% CGT just because it effects them.
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