Christ almighty, if I say that ordinary everyday issues will be a problem in a united Ireland context, then it goes without saying that they will be a problem in a more minor issue such as the Protocol. That doesn't need to be spelled out each and every time. Pedantic analysis is desperation.
Delusional stuff.
But thanks for owning up to it not having anything to do with the Protocol when you first spouted it.
BTW I am sure there will be a demographic who won't vote for a UI because the colour green gives them the yips too. Of course there will be a demographic who will decide on the availability of a pickle sandwich too. How fecking ironic would it be that they cause the demise of Sainsbury's and M&S in NI by voting for Brexit. 😁
I'm sure you'll be on taking their side too and blaming the dastardly Irish nationalists.
Let me see, I have the choice of believing an anonymous internet poster or the chief executives of companies including Sainsbury’s, Marks and Spencer and Tesco, tough one that.
https://www.newfoodmagazine.com/news/134195/northern-ireland-shortages/
"UK supermarket chains have demanded government intervention to prevent "unworkable" new Brexit regulations causing disruption to food supplies to Northern Ireland."
I don't know, maybe you are right, and all those supermarket chief executives are wrong.
Not a strawman, it is influencing discussions on the Protocol, but you think it won't influence the wider issue with wider implications of a united Ireland. Fair enough, unfortunately I don't think I will ever be able to say I told you so, but if the incredible happens and we get a border poll, I will be back to remind you.
What harm. If the choice of supermarket influences your vote in a UI then I say more fool you. Probably best to take that strawman to the appropriate thread though.
And you don't think it will? Come on Francie, you don't think that people are going to vote for some random fantasy of a united Ireland without knowing how it will affect the goods in the shops, the tax they pay, the social welfare they receive, the job in the hospital they have, their children's schooling etc. etc. etc.
Of course these things will affect their decisions. If you have shopped in Sainsbury's for 40 years, you won't want to change just so that there can be a united Ireland. Your continued underestimation of this demographic is entertaining though.
Most importantly this is precisely the square root of F all to do with the nonsense you were peddling about Sainsburys a while ago.
Trying to turn his Sainsbury faux pas into something relevant really is the height of mis-representation. Of himself this time.
Let's be very clear, Blanch. Unrest is being fomented by those who are being inconvenienced in their attempts to bring certain other products into NI, which increased checks are making problematic.
I'd imagine the vast majority of sausages sold and consumed in NI are made by Cookstown, Dennys and Galtee. Having a look for British sausage brands online, I don't recall seeing any in the NI supermarkets apart from the supermarket own brands.
Nobody is concerned about the Protocol because they're afraid of an Irish versus an English pork sausage, or how a cheap prepacked BLT sandwich might taste so dramatically different.
Most moderate Unionists don't give a toss if the product in their Breakfast roll comes from Ireland or Britain (indeed nor do moderate Nationalists). Essentially a couple of jumped up drug dealers are experiencing supply chain difficulties and a very loud group of their usual mouthpieces have pretty much invented the concern about supermarket produce. It's C grade propaganda at best, further seized on by those who wish to increase the divide between NI and Ireland in NI, and those in Britain who are upset they didn't get the Hard Brexit they wanted.
Worst of all, it is completely at odds with the reality of the situation; NI has full shelves, Britain is experiencing a number of shortages and we're supposed to believe that anyone reasonably believes NI got the sh*tty end of the stick?!
Bullshit, that wasn't what you were referring to when you went on your sandwich fantasy. You were saying it would influence their choice in a UI referendum. You are some chancer, I'll give you that.
The adjustments will be to take account of the very points that I have made, once again showing I had a better idea of the way the wind was blowing. To help you understand the issue, here is a crash course:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/give-me-a-crash-course-in-the-latest-in-the-eu-uk-sausage-war-1.4608836
"Shortages of British products in Northern Ireland’s supermarkets have angered some in the Unionist-Loyalist community "
I said it would happen, you said it was nonsense, then it happened, and yet you still claim it is nonsense. You might want to put away the shovels. Food on the supermarket shelves is a real issue.
Oh lord no...not the 'Unionists won't vote for a UI because their sandwich tastes funny' stuff again?
😁😁
The Protocol a few months ago, when you were at this nonsense, and now, is going nowhere.
The will be easements and adjustments though.
You were called out for this nonsense months ago and ran away.
Why return to peddle this nonsense again?
Interesting that you take the view that business groups being happy with the Protocol is a good thing. It is the first time I have heard from you that business should be looked after (other than opening the pubs during Covid). Normally, there is a non-stop complaint about Apple or the FG government being too close to business.
The problem with the Protocol is one I identified months ago - the sandwich issue I called it, but it applies to sausages and other food as well. The punters don't like change in their supermarkets, they want the brands and tastes that they are familiar with. Yet, you and other posters ridiculed my point, but it is coming home to roost. At the end of the day, the Protocol won't succeed if it becomes identified with punishing the ordinary guy in the street. There is a lesson there for the Little Irelanders as well who don't realise that they need to ensure losses are eliminated in any move towards a united Ireland.
They would be reminded that they've left the EU but still have to follow its rules. The media would crucify them.
But it doesn't have to mean that. They can still sell it as a gain of independence, successfully withdrawing from the EU while maintaining frictionless trade with the bloc.
England apparently would rather be able to lower its standards which would allow it to import from far-off countries with less than ideal food production standards. Hormone beef or chlorinated chicken for anyone? Plus, if Britain were to align itself now, it would be a massive embarrasing admittance that Brexit is as was predicted - a total failure of British governance by a cohort of incompetent and/or self-serving politicians along with a corrupt media
It's a good point. Why doesn't Britain simply align with the EU on things like sanitary and phytosanitary standards, (standards Britain has been compliant with since what, 1975?) as this would probably reduce the bulk of the trade friction.
Indeed, one has to seriously consider if the UK government's reluctance to implement measures, entirely within its own sovereign jurisdiction, which would enable the free flow of goods and smooth operation of the NI Protocol is part of a longer term political aim to increasingly move NI to the political and economic periphery of the UK with the ultimate aim of divesting itself of NI entirely while hiding behind the plausible deniability of it all being the EU's fault. Damned foreigners, a shifty lot you know, just can't be trusted! 😏
The "crap bits" are there to protect the integrity of the SM and to ensure that the lowering of food quality standards by the UK does not affect the EU.
Were the EU to agree to the potential solutions you put forward e.g. trusted trader etc, do you think Johnson will be happy to see his Brexit further humiliated given that England won't have those benefits?
GB could try some basic alignment on food standards, that would eliminate a lot of the checks. If the Westminster government refuses to do that, then of course we need to keep checking everything passing between GB and NI. Maybe ask your MP about it?
Agreed. I say again, a protocol is not only required but it is gold to ni. We just have to get rid of the crap bits and I am confident that will happen before there is any violent conflict on this island. It’s a no-brainier
A section of belligerent Unionists are being led up constitutional and legal blind alley's by the likes of Sammy Wilson and Jamie Bryson spouting cod legal speak.
Sammy nor Jamie will be nowhere to be seen when the **** hits the fan though and will just pivot again and blame somebody else. Rinse and repeat.
So much of Article 16 places the onus on changes that cause the least disturbance to the functioning of the NIP. So the NIP is going nowhere.
Article 16 Safeguards
1. If the application of this Protocol leads to serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade, the Union or the United Kingdom may unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures. Such safeguard measures shall be restricted with regard to their scope and duration to what is strictly necessary in order to remedy the situation. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol.
2. If a safeguard measure taken by the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, in accordance with paragraph 1 creates an imbalance between the rights and obligations under this Protocol, the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, may take such proportionate rebalancing measures as are strictly necessary to remedy the imbalance. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol.
3. Safeguard and rebalancing measures taken in accordance with paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be governed by the procedures set out in Annex 7 to this Protocol.
just to add to what Francie wrote above: "We in the EU can but sit and watch and IF your courts decide the Protocol is unlawful then it is UP TO your government to offer an alternative proposal to deal with the same issue the Protocol did."
Whatever the UK were to propose would also need to be accepted by each of the EU27 so the UK can think up what it thinks is acceptable but the EU have no need to change from the currently legally binding arrangements (regardless of the UK courts) if they deem its alternative to be below par.
Why would we in Ireland ask your government to scrap the Protocol.
The 'court' cases are an internal UK matter.
We in the EU can but sit and watch and IF your courts decide the Protocol is unlawful then it is UP TO your government to offer an alternative proposal to deal with the same issue the Protocol did.
In effect, you will force the rest of the UK back into No Deal territory. Good luck, if you achieve that foot shooting feat.
No idea what you are on about. You are getting like Francis who believes he should follow EU blindly.
I absolutely withhold the right to challenge my government when it gets it wrong.
mad for the court case it is at a very early stage and there will be several turns along this road.
I wonder if it goes the other direction on appeal will you be asking for the government to scrap the protocol?
I think you have done that much spinning and pivoting that you have confused yourself.
You are not alone, political Unionism in it's entirety seems to be in terminal confusion.
I was responding directly to the poster who said that we should have been prepared and sourced product from the south to replace what we couldn’t get from gb. So direct the ‘nonsense’ accusation at the poster who made the statement
And we're back to this "Leo weaponised the border" nonsense. Why do you bother?
Is diversion of trade defined in the agreement?
I know in economics it refers to using tariffs to switch business from more efficient producers to less efficient ones.
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