Following on from
this thread
Please remain civil or posting privileges will be removed
and is going in the right direction. Any person in poverty should be helped by the state if they want the help.
The problem as mentioned before is the growing drugs issue when some people do not want help, we need to stop drugs at a young age or it is going to be a massive issue in 10 years time.
You quoted me when making an accusation so I don't disagree, you are incorrect.
Why are you talking about "racism"? If someone was trying to ridicule a person on PUP that is not racism. I think you mean "discrimination"
Ireland has low rates of poverty among workers, compared to other countries.
The AROP rate is 12.8% across the population.
Among workers, the rate is 4.6%.
So yes, you are correct, the AROP rate is not zero among workers.
However, given that many min-wage workers live in non-poor households, increasing the min wage means sending more wages into non-poor households.
So it is not the most effective way to reduce poverty.
Likely YFG.
If true that could have been very easily been prevented. But it's the government of piss poor planning and blaming the results on everyone else.
You quoted my post and were involved in this discussion yesterday, from the comments I'm referring to. I'll not go round in circles every other day. Here's a sample below:
You mean you disagree. Talking about people swarming soup kitchens looking for hand outs and people on PUP being work shy, is just that.
So we've people swarming soup kitchens looking for a handout. People not wanting to spend their own money on food. People using soup kitchens so they can keep their money for the pub. You can add to that tales of work shy PUP recipients. All pretty reprehensible IMO.
Like with other issues and a tool often used to mask racism, saying 'not all' or 'some' and then spending 99% of the time slating people is a poor disclaimer and not a credible defence.
Victim blaming. Making the victims the problem to dismiss the causes. Party loyalty has a lot to answer for.
I did hear that loads of students who had part-time jobs pre-Covid and were claiming PUP have gone abroad in June. They are living it up in cheap rented accommodation in the Med while getting PUP into their bank account every week. Happy days.
Let’s face it there is a good few wasters still claiming the PUP. Overheard one talking about it today standing outside the bookies smoking as I walked by
Im not joking either.
Unfortunately your opinion is incorrect and as I pointed out nobody is ridiculing them.
In regards to the claim about people swarming to soup kitchens I never seen anything of the sort but maybe I missed so if you could quote. Very shocking if someone actually said something like that. If not then very strange you would make something so awful up
You posted an article which has a comment but with no Ministers name on it. Which party is the Minister from?
Please quote the posts where posters have posted what you have claimed.
You goys make it too easy
https://www.google.com/amp/s/extra.ie/2021/05/03/news/irish-news/student-pup-loophole-125m/amp
And why dont we push on and lift the last people here living in poverty out of it....noone should live in poverty here,its pure wrong to argue otherwise....anyone who could look upon the halting site at sixcrossroads and deem it opulance are deluded
Healthcare should be a human right,its incomprehensible that people demand ot not be free and the obvious outworking of that being the poor should have lower quality healthcare.....free healthcare,would lead to diseases and sickness like cancer/diabetes etc being picked up sooner and being treated easier....leading to massive savings to offset the cost of it
The NHS? Seriously?
Have a read of this article on the ineffectiveness of the NHS. Look at what is happening today up in the North where the hospitals can't cope because of Covid.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/29/nhs-wields-the-axe-on-17-unnecessary-procedures
Look at this list of excluded common procedures.
As for economic growth, we are not living like 16th century peasants, with a hovel of sticks, routine hunger and disease and a life expectancy of 35. Economic growth has meant that average living standards in Ireland are the highest ever. You also should remember that people in Ireland, even those at the bottom, live far far better than the people of countries like Lebanon, Syria or Afghanistan and many many more. The average Irish person is in the top 5% in the world for living standards.
Its really not.....surely existance of nhs is an example of it?.....it should be a human right and gross as fcuk that someones healthcare access is decided by depth of their wallet
People are free to demand these houses,and can pay for em if they so wish,but the option of free basic housing should be available to all.....people sneer at soviet russia,when in reality a grim housing block is many multiples better than expecting families to be raised in hotel rooms or the national scandel that is direct provision
All this econmic growth is worth fcuk all,if we cant lift all our people out of poverty.....why bother with it?
Free healthcare for all is a mythical objective. There isn't a single country in the world that can deliver it. Very low cost healthcare, with some demand management, is a realistic objective.
Similarly, free housing for all is an impossible objective, especially when the Irish won't settle for anything other than a three-bedroomed house with a garden big enough for a trampoline, five minutes away from Mammy.
Why not do both??
A better baseline wage is better for all workers,i have no issue introducing free healthcare for all,it should be a human right alongside housing,education and water imo
Its long since time we elected people to run country for benefit of its citizens....the refusal to pay a living wage,played a large part in the mass outbreaks in factories during covid as people couldnt afford to take a day off
We badly need paid sick leave too
I understand full how the world works...yous are one burying head in sand demanding no living wage be paid....despite the government wanting to push on witb it
The living wage is cited as whats needed for single adult to live above poverty level....drooling on about drink/gambling isnt going to gloss over fact min wage is a poverty wqge ànd noone should live in poverty in ireland
There are other ways of bridging the gap.
For example, providing school books, school uniforms and school dinners to all children is one way of reducing the amount required for the living wage, bringing it down closer to the minimum wage. Similarly, introducing the French system of GPs where everybody pays a small amount - €10 - for a GP visit brings down the amount required for a living wage. Improving services in that way to reduce the amount required for a living wage doesn't hit businesses as hard.
And yet its below a living wage?
FGers don't believe people should have lives outside of work anymore, work long hours, sleep, come back to work, anything that's not for profit isn't wanted in the FG regime,
Some deal for the developer though, wouldn't think he'd to stump up a single cent, assuming its the former Regency carpark ,
That might be what FF/FG/Greens tell themselves when trying to go to sleep at night.
I'd agree, some peoples attitudes are the problem. Hopefully they'll be out of government soon enough.
No point in supporting not fit for purpose leased apartments IMO.
IMO, claiming people are on it to avoid work is ridiculing them.
Claiming people are swarming to soup kitchens to save their money for drink and smokes is looking down. Claiming people on PUP are avoiding work, (every one of them being employed pre Covid) is looking down on them.
You should both look over the last few pages before making such claims.
From my point of view, PUP was introduced, it did its job. It's job is now over, especially when you see the numbers who have first & second jab, so PUP should be put away and everyone should hope it never has to return. Hopefully we are finally out of this pandemic and I think everyone can agree the sooner the better
It is a debating tactic to deflect from the arguments being made.
You can have immense sympathy for every single person on the PUP, but still argue that the rate is too high or that students shouldn't have qualified or some other objection.
The problem there is the Irish culture of wanting a three-bedroom house with a garden big enough for a trampoline, five minutes away from the mammy. Until we start building up like in Europe, which is something this government is trying to do (but being opposed tooth and nail by the largest opposition party), we will be stuck with high rents.
You do know Dublin is one city in Ireland.
Dublin has high rent and is expensive but it also has high wages. Hence why you have loads of people travelling into Dublin so they can avail of "Dublin wages"
Hopefully with the introduction of work from home more people can live outside Dublin while working for Dublin companies.
Dublin has 5th highest i bedroom rentals in Europe.
Dublin is the fifth most expensive place in Europe.
Need to weigh up a number of things. Simply pointing to welfare rates, (which are based on need) is ignoring the big picture.
It's a few times posters have fired out this "talking down to XYZ". I have seen none of that on this thread and nobody I know or work with would ever do anything of the sort. Maybe you have seen it with the people you mix with but I don't think you should be constantly trying to tar everyone with the same brush.
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