A few pages ago you were talking up the protests in Dublin (you even suggested 'every Friday) and earlier you 'could not guarantee your peacefulness) not hard to work out who your 'heroes' might be, even though you recoil and pretend otherwise
I am of the opinion the upshot for the Tories is a Border Poll. They are provoking Unionists to cash in their guarantees not to be peaceable.
Soon as the protests reach a certain pitch the British will appear stateman-ish and call a Border Poll to settle the matter.
It would be difficult to see what practical benefit border poll would be, other than serving as a temporary distraction.
Results of a recent opinion poll suggest the vote would be to remain part of the UK by a 49% v 43% vote. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40271213.html That would still leave the NI protocol / single market problem unchanged.
The obvious solution is for the UK to align standards with the EU however after the jingoistic bluster of their Brexit campagain I don't think it is something the current UK government has any appetite for. It would be too much of a loss of face. I think it will take a change of people at the top or a change of government in the UK first.
It’s sad when you begin your post by misquoting me. I absolutely did not say Uk had no influence in protocol. That would be absurd as they signed it.
as for Ireland wanting fewer/no checks. No disagreement there. Of course they do. And if you can piggy back on the benefits of NI membership of the UK then I wish you well, but don’t try and screw us over just to achieve that. A we bit of gumption and cooperation and we could benefit from your membership of EU and you could Benicia from our membership of UK. Maybe that’s your plan all along.
Excellent post. This can be achieved even without any additional checks on Ireland / eu mainland border.
I am confident that is where we will land or at least very close.
What is the point in brexit if Uk align just for ROIs benifit
It would be for NI's benefit. Neither GB or Ireland have any problems right now so all of this is about NI.
The 'English' are manoeuvring those they don't want into choosing to leave of their own accord. I am convinced that is the goal of the Johnsons/Rees Moggs/etc.
*Opinion polls don't automatically translate into actual results. When the Scottish referendum was called support for Independence in 'opinion polls' was in the low 30's
At last you ask a good question! 😁
There is no chance of violence over a sea border. Poots, Wilson, Paisley and Bryson and their like have tried to stoke it, desperately, as they did over the Anglo Irish Agreement, the GFA and various other 'betrayals' of their love, 'flegs and parades' etc but it was all very local and only harmed themselves.
The ultimate in Unionist hypocrisy is to hear them now invoking the GFA to try and win an argument they have long since lost.
'Never Never Never...ah shure go on'
The whole unionist approach is crazy, and utterly self defeating. It started with promoting Brexit, even though nationalists were about to become a majority in NI and they needed to make it comfortable for them. Then they pursued a hardline approach when they had some sway, and now want the Protocol torn up! What do they imagine would happen then? There'd have to be a hard border on the island of Ireland, which would cause far more disruption that a sea border, and would make a UI far more appealing for hundreds of thousands of people.
This lack of realism is really haunting unionism. If they don't stop alienating Catholics they'll be in a UI very soon.
What they don't seem to realise is that all day long, even though it would be anathema to them, Irish people will accept a hard border if it comes to protecting the Single Market and our place in the EU.
They haven't again looked beyond this happening, strategically. It's a very short route to a BP and a resounding win for UIers if that happens. We are on a slower journey to a UI thanks to their 'strategy' already.
That there is the problem. There is no point to Brexit simply because Brexit has never actually been defined.
The UK would not align for the RoI's benefit. They would align for the UK's benefit and in particular NI.
As for the RoI leaving the SM, why on earth would we? We don't want to leave as we realise the massive benefits of being part of it. The UK left but cannot give clear reasons why without getting caught up in lies and populist bluster. A proposal that the RoI leave the SM simply to apease a few hardliner bigots and some drug dealers is ridiculous. As I said previously, it would make far more sense and be more poractical for all involved if the UK were to commit to alignment with the EU (as many other countries do). However, this would contribute to the long list of reasons why Johnson's Brexit was a mistake so won't happen anytime soon.
Fascinating thread here. To think trust was placed in Cummings! What has become of Britain.
Dominic Cummings on Twitter: "@DavidGauke Reason why ANY checks between GB/NI is that we lost most of our negotiating leverage September 2019 when you and others backed the Surrender Act. Moment that passed, EU sat back. Hence why I told PM to fire the lot of you, pour encourager..." / Twitter
Whether Ireland voted to leave the EU is irrelevant.
The UK voted to leave the EU and has now done so. Ireland now has to decide how it reacts to that decision. Anything which makes trade between Ireland and NI or NI and GB more difficult risks a return to violence. I'm old enough to remember the violence in NI and I don't want to return to that. There are two sides in NI and the reason we have had peace for so long is we have a settlement that both can accept. The current situation in NI is acceptable to only one side.
If the EU is going to insist on the "integrity of the single market" being the most important issue then it is surely in Ireland's best interest to have thse checks between Ireland and the EU. I would prioritise peace over the interests of the EU.
There is zero proof that there are two sides to the Protocol issue. Nobody has voted on it and the only vote we have is a majority wanting to stay in the EU and therefore no need for Protocols or WA's.
Do not casually accept the nonsense that all Unionists are anti EU nor that all Nationalists are Pro-Eu.
The RoI does not need to decide how it reacts because the agreement has been made between the UK and the EU and we're happy with that. We would have preferred if the UK government did not pursue Brexit but they have chosen that path.
Any violence in NI now is as a direct result of the UK government agreeing to something that a minority there disagree with because of a percieved loss of constitutionality (which has been shown to be a wrong perception) or because the trade deal infringes on their ability to import drugs.
The deal is done and will not change. The UK can choose to either stick to what it agreed or break that agreement. If loyalists decide to turn to violence because of what their government chooses, then that is for the UK government. The RoI has no need to change its entire economic position to facilitate the UK government's insistence on digging the Brexit hole even deeper.
@Sue de Nimes "The UK voted to leave the EU and has now done so. Ireland now has to decide how it reacts to that decision."
I know you're a new reg on this forum, but one has to wonder what planet you've been living on these last five years. The UK announced a referendum on whether or not to leave the EU, and Ireland reacted then, back in 2015, to decide what measures would be acceptable. Those measures were hard-wired into the very earliest negotiations when the referendum result was delivered.
The RoI is not going to change it's position now, having influenced both the EU and the GB government to agree the best possible solution for NI.
Apart from the self-determination to stay in the EU, which was rode over completely roughshod.
The country responsible for avoiding violence within its own country is said country.
Mmmm, the UK decided leaving the EU was more important than maintaining the fragile peace in NI which was to a large part based on freedom of movement and tariff free trade North South and East West facilitated by EU membership.
The EU has not changed (and should not change) it's requirement to secure it's borders and the safety of products entering the Single Market in order to address the issues Brexit has created for NI.
Putting a border in the Irish sea to negate the need for a hard border on the island of Ireland was the price the UK was freely prepared to pay (and BoJo & Co championed) in order to secure the Trade & Cooperation Agreement.
Now the UK wants to welch on the deal but doesn't have the leverage or international support to make that happen so are acting like spoilt brats who can't get their own way and are throwing their toys out of the pram.
How the once mighty have fallen.
You are so enlightened. I am honoured to share a forum with such as you.
mans your above post. Try replacing unionist with DUP. Don’t put all the unionists in one we box or you will have me thinking that all the nationalists supported the sectarian murder and torture over the years. Thankfully I know that is not the case
Haha. Then you’ll be safe. You’ll be able to keep out all those British rabied dogs and won’t have to worry about eating Uk sausages. You can just eat the cows that the eu has now said it’s ok to feed other dead cows to.
Emma De Sousa crunching the 'majority community' numbers nonsense spouted by Arlene and Co.
Emma DeSouza on Twitter: "A #thread on how unionism is a minority in Northern Ireland, despite what Arlene Foster purports. Unionism lost its majority in Stormont for the first time since the creation of NI in 2017. Followed by losing its majority in Westminster in 2019." / Twitter
You should have a wee read at the agreement.
I think we can all agree the criteria has been well met on several fronts to allow Uk to trigger article 16. That’s the agreement. If you are opposed to the right of the Uk to trigger 16 then it’s you that is breaking the agreement
Nothing to do with Ireland being punished. More a case of whether Ireland wants to act in its interests or the interests of the EU.
It is amazing how many people seem to be perfectly happy with a return to violence in NI if it means they can "stick one to the Brits"
At least in the EU I will have some chance of knowing what I am eating. You guys won't have a clue. Profit will come before your wellbeing.
You are misunderstanding how democracy works. The Uk is the nation. The parliament decided referendum was Uk wide.
the parliament also agreed to the gfa which says that no people have self determination (as long as southerners agree)
and you guys talk on here as if 90% of no votes against brexit.
Agreed. That is exactly what most unionists are trying to do by getting rid of the crap bits of the protocol.
So you have nothing to worry about then.
I happen to believe different
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