Following on from
this thread
Please remain civil or posting privileges will be removed
The only ones shutting down will be the badly run unviable ones, no one is trying to create more unemployment but giving someone a few hours every second week to get a grant and massage the live register isn't real employment
You're still shutting down businesses and cutting jobs.
I think it hilarious all these people think that companies can operate unprofitable. Food and beverage business is a labour intensive high cost business. Keep a pub/restaurant open 7 days days a week Monday-Wednesday you will tick over come Thursday you get a bit of a fill up then you are hoping from Friday evening until Sunday 5-6pm its full tilt as much as possible. From that on you wait until next Thursday. You will need 3-4 barmen, 15 front of house staff, 6-8 kitchen staff and 2-3 shift managers. 30+ staff and business will vary week to week depending on whether its a bank holiday, summer holiday season.
You cannot force customers to enter and buy your burgers, steak's or your beer. Monday-Wednesday you need only 5-8 staff to run the place, Thursday 10 ish maybe 12 if there is something on. Friday-Sunday 6pm you probably need 20 staff on quite weekends but everybody on a busy one. On such a business every euro/hour in extra wages costs you 40-50K/year costs. No business can survive being unprofitable. Low profitability business's cannot expand or employ more people or invest in faculities cunstomers require.
At the end of the all the couple that come in wanting a main course, desert, a bottle of wine and a few drinks have 100 euro to spend. If its 120-150 euro they may decide to stay at home every second week end and have a takeway and a bottle of wine from ALDI and a few longnecks for 50-60 euro. In both cases over the month they spend the same amount. But in one senario there is a good few jobs less around.
A business cannot force customers into its premises. Pricing will quickly keep them away. A euro/hour might not seem alot but few business have the ability to generate a 100k extra/year out of thin air.
I wonder how many lads out there have ever ran a business, put there money at risk. It could take 3-500K to get a business like that up and running before you saw a bob of turnover. Try it sometime
He talked about students working part-time being better off on PUP. Students don't qualify for JSA or JSB, they do for PUP. He is 100% correct.
You probably know all this and are just arguing nonsense for the sake of it.
And again...ive yet to see justification for not paying people a living wage
If a business cant do it,its simply not viable....newer better more efficent businesses which can,will emerge.....if not the sector is simply unviable
Dunno why lads have such reluctance to seeing people getting paid a living wage....dont see point in perpetuating this farce of people not getting paid a proper wage tbh
What is a living wage in your opinion.
I'm all for removing inefficiencies from the labour force.
Let's start with useless teachers, health service middle managers etc etc shall we?
Its listed at 12.30 an hour
personally i feel its wrong to expect people to work for less than a living wage,a business model that cant and relys on not payinv it,is simply unviable for this day and age
1913 lockouts in dublin were for a fair days wages for a fair days work,its inconprehensible people still argue againest this...nothing ever changes here
Knock yourself out lad,what has this to do with my post and paying a living wage though?
We have a minimum wage in Ireland, that is reflective of the cost of living in Ireland. All the information available here to explain it
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/5/enacted/en/html
Indeed....why is it accepted by the low pay comission as not being enough?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/low-pay-commission-living-wage-minimum-wage-5410418-Apr2021/%3famp=1
Tbf im often critical of the government,but varadkar and co,have committed to introducing thiis....sooner the better
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/leo-varadkar-pledges-introduce-living-23761789.amp
Everyone has an opinion over what the minimum wage is. At least we are in a position in this day & age that we have a minimum wage, prior to 2000 this didn't exist so we have a base which can be increased or decreased.
I am sure if the government reviews and moves the minimum wage to X.XX as soon as it is at that level people will come out and say it is not enough. Unfortunealty it doesn't matter what level it is set at people will still complain
I think the one thing everyone should remember in these discussions, education is king. Stay at school, go to college and get an education. Even if you have left school the country is full of courses to up skill quickly.
I am sure the minimum wage will increase in line with the cost of living. What you don't seem to recognise is that increasing the minimum wage has a knock on affect on small companies. Jumping up and down demanding more money but then putting companies out of business is an idiotic model. No government should implement that.
As I said as soon as the 12.30 or whatever is implemented I am sure you will be on here saying it should be XX.XX euro or something else ridiculous.
And the vast majority of full-time workers in any job are now on that rate. In general most that are not are part-time mostly made up of those that are going to college.
Yes there is outliers but in general 12/hour is there for full-time staff. However in general Students are paid less but the minimum wage protects them.
However if the minimum wage was at that there would be another hurdle set above it.
Theres no excuse or rationale in not paying people a living wage...imo
If the business cant,its simply unviable and wrong to ask people working there to prop.it up via **** wages
You make it sound like conscription. If anyone is unhappy with their salary then they can unskill and/or find another better paid job. My first job was for minimum wage, it was great as it gave me the opportunity to gain experience and be ready for more responsibility in a higher paid job.
The small percentage of people that spend years and years earning minimum wage mistook a starter job for a career.
The food and beverage trade is very sensitive to cost. There is two aspects to this competition from other providers but more importantly customers have budgets as to hat they spend.
At present things are ok with government support and with large savings in the economy. But that can change fast. Every euro/ hour extra in wages adds 50k/ years in costs to these businesses. I remember 2008-12 when there as virtually no part time jobs for college students. 10.3/ hour is better than 0/ hour
Noone should earn below a living wage.....looks like a long winded justification for **** wages to prop.up unviable businesses tbh
And noone has said otherwise......still awaiting someone to justify paying people below a living wage
Noone should live in poverty in a world in which billionaires can take holidays to space,its pure wrong
Those two sentences have little to do with each other.
You could equally argue that nobody should have a minimum wage of €10.50 an hour, when the minimum wage somewhere like Tanzania is €0.09.
Ireland is top five for minimum wage in the world, top five for social welfare rates in the world. Our standards of living are among the highest.
Our minimum wage is the second highest in Europe, just behind Luxembourg.
I think the biggest problem here is you don't actually understand what you are talking about. You are shouting about a "living wage" but in reality this has nothing to do with living in poverty in Ireland. The current minimum wage is based on information taken from all over Ireland to come to that number. It is not pulled out of someone's ass which is what you are referring to
The biggest issue Ireland has with people living in poverty is down to alcohol & drug abuse. Not to be forgotten is gambling addiction. This is something which many governments really have failed to take a handle of, especially when you look at drug abuse which is growing at an alarming rate.
Unfortunately you seem to think repeating the same buzz word is how politics should work, I don't blame you a lot of parties are following this mantra as they don't want to actually dig into the issues because they haven't a clue how to resolve. I am sure you will ignore all this post and again say a "living wage" but for all the people who actually understand how the World works the last thing anyone should be doing in Ireland is closing down companies, today, tomorrow or in the future. We should be ploughing money into them and making sure they can hire more & more staff.
Increasing the min wage will have very little impact on poverty.
Most people in poverty do not have a job, so any changes in the min wage don't affect them.
So people who work in the service industry shouldn't earn enough to spend in that industry, bit of a self defeating ideal that an industry wants customers but doesn't believe people should be paid enough to avail of their service, odd
Irrelevant if the cost of everything else is the same percentage dearer, doesn't matter if everyone earned 5k aweek if the cost of living was 6k, 25 years ago I earned 25% of what I earn now but had more disposable income percentage wise than now, Ireland membership of the Eurozone should have seen a balancing of prices throughout Europe, why hasn't that happened
There's a lot of working poor,FIS payments prove that
You were talking about the quality of the food they got. That's what I was commenting on. If someone needed a feed I wouldn't be fretting about it being too nice.
If a business was availing of some form of aid would you be as critical? Why do some of us expect some to suffer for the profits of others like it's not only normal but an honour to be given a poorly paid job and a duty to take up those jobs?
The tone of some talking down on people using soup kitchens to people availing of PUP, to defend well to do and looked after politicians is mind numbing.
You just have to look at the targets; homeless, unemployed, nurses, anyone in a union, people on low incomes, people on PUP, people in A & E. It speaks for itself.
If the tax payer is subsidising the workers wages in rent or other help, what's the difference?
By what mechanism, and under what principles should Ireland's membership of the Eurozone have seen a balancing of prices throughout Europe?
Free trade without levies was the very basis for the original common market, a loaf or a burger should cost the same in Ireland, Austria ,Portugal and so on,
So do you know any business that runs on just enough to give the owner a reasonable wage on purpose? I bet you don't. Do you know many that increase employee salaries in tandem with profits? There's a few probably. Usually make a stir they are so rare.
A business wants to make as much profit as possible. That's grand. There's a middle ground. If you are good at running a business you can give good wages and make profit. If you need a handout from your staff, (which is what low wages is) maybe running a business isn't for you.
Did you make this up or hear it from some FG'er?
There are working people unable to pay their way, needing aid and needing soup kitchens. If any such people found themselves on PUP, they'd be mad to leave it IMO. They are ridiculed for being poor on or off PUP.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wc.vanillicon.com/v2/c6e76a2e0d85c3808d93c2f75a0c528d.svg)
