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Negotiating the Deane roundabout

bobbyss

If you are coming up Bishop O'D Road with Cuan Glas on your left which lane should you/must you enter if you want to go straight ahead and then turn right onto Kingston Road?

There is a bus lane before you enter the roundabout, then a bus stop. (What a place to have a bus stop).

Then the single lane turns into two with an arrow directing you (as I understand it) into a short left lane left into Cuan Glas. If you enter this short, left lane I still assume you are entitled to go straight ahead towards Threadneedle.

Moving past the roundabout towards the Threadneedle junction there is one rather wide land which eventually turns into two lanes.

What is your experience if this route?

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galwaydoc

Exactly as you describe it.

Going uphill, enter the left lane just before the roundabout, go straight ahead into the second exit, which is a wide single lane, and then when the lane divides into two, take the right lane to turn right at the traffic lights at the Threadneedle Road junction to turn down to Kingston.

bobbyss

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117615091#Comment_117615091

A complicating issue is that whichever lane you are in as you exit the roundabout, if both cars want to go straight, and do, you exit onto one lane. My experience is that if I am in the outer right lane wanting to go straight (as per the arrow) and you have a car on my left also wanting to go straight the roundabout itself is almost too tight for two cars to do that together. One usually has to give way and that usually (again from my experience) is the car on the left lane.

What is your understanding of the rather odd shaped arrow which directs you into the left lane after the bus stop? To get into this lane for Cuan Glas only or to go straight or both?

Sconsey

I remember this was discussed before, the best thing to do is drive as you describe: go into the left lane and then drive straight ahead to the second exit. But by doing that you are not obeying the roadmarkings which suggest the left lane is for left turns only. I think it is a balls-up with the roadmarkings really.

It looks like this but should probably look like this.

bobbyss

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117615284#Comment_117615284

I have the same feeling for that arrow which I think is for exit into Cuam Glas only. However when I use that roundabout I always enter it on the right lane. Very few cars, I notice, who want to also go straight go into the left lane. They just queue behind.

Last week a car was in the left lane and hooted at me as I exited going straight. This was because he also tried to go straight at the same time as me but, as I said earlier, it is too tight for two cars to exit together. The car on the left usually gives way. This is because usually the car in the right lane has better visibility and takes off first from the roundabout.

[Deleted User]

That left lane is left turn only. I've seen and been involved in many near incidents where cars use the left lane to go straight through towards Threadneedle.

Markings on that roundabout are a mess.

bobbyss

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117615874#Comment_117615874

Are you 100% sure it is left only? What do you base it on?

The Rules of the Road about Roundabouts are full of should/ought/normally use etc.

Are you basing it on the odd left arrow in the left lane? I am not 100% sure myself what it means. I think it means turn left into Cuan Glas.

[Deleted User]

Yeah you go by the roundabout layout, then by the signage (which can overrule the actual layout, pushing lanes in/out of 12 o clock alignment) then by road markings.

That road marking is left turn only. Otherwise the lane would be left and straight.

Search 130L on this;

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.gov.ie/34719/d2683724881f4477bb2babe78c282e6f.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi8o5298OXxAhUjQUEAHQPeDFkQFjAAegQICBAC&usg=AOvVaw36m0O0Hnv4O2ZTQSZD4mHf

GerardKeating

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117615874#Comment_117615874

Looking at the markings on the road, the bus lane ends, and the lane markings split the traffic into the two lanes, but there is nothing at the actual roundabout to indicate what lane to use on the actual roundabout, so default rules would apply, so left lane for Cuan Glas and Treadneedle road, and the right lane for the Fort Lorenzo and Western Distributor road..

buzz11

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117615874#Comment_117615874

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117617014#Comment_117617014

Wrong & Wrong

Look again...there are no road markings indicating left turn only.

if your getting involved in "..many near incidents" by misreading the markings, then its time for specsavers or back to the theory test 😦

[Deleted User]

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625947#Comment_117625947

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625891#Comment_117625891

Yes the bus lane ends and the arrow road marking split the traffic into two lanes. But the left arrow used indicates the left lane is for left turn only. It's not the more common traffic split marking (M130), it's the road marking that split into a left lane for left turn only (M130L).

From the road markings doc linked above - "In cases where the nearside lane is restricted to left turning traffic, the left-turn variant M 130L should be used".

It's a mess as lots don't understand the road markings.

[Deleted User]

This is the left turn only lane at Deane... note the left arrow after the split (M130L).

This is a similar approach, to the roundabout behind the hospital, coming from westside. Here it's a standard traffic split (M130), use the lane according to what roundabout exit you're using (left does up to 12 o clock exit).

bobbyss

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625891#Comment_117625891

If we can be 100% sure that the left turn arrow means 'use this lane only to enter Cuan Glas', then all traffic should be in the right lane - unless you are entering Cuan Glas. This would mean the bus would have to quickly move into the right lane as soon as it takes off from the bus stop. I have never noticed what busses do there actually but you would expect a professional driver to be following the law. I must keep an beady out for them (and taxis) the next time.

There is already a straight ahead arrow in the right lane. So we should all be queuing in the right lane and go straight or turn for WDR.

[Deleted User]

Well the definition of the road marking is clear. It's quite a subtle visual difference though and it's not very well understood. If there was a collision and insurance case it'd probably come up though.

I wouldn't look to Galway city taxis for guidance, they tend to have some of the most lax road users within their ranks!

I would not be surprised if it was intended as a normal traffic split and they just marked it up wrong.

GerardKeating

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117627899#Comment_117627899

None of the buses coming up SQR go towards the Threadneedle Road junction, they all go to the Gateway Retail Park.

bobbyss

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117629084#Comment_117629084

Yep Correct. I will keep a sharp eye out to see how they manoeuvre. The stop is so close to the roundabout itself I wonder do the bus drivers bother to get back into the right lane immediately before continuing on to WDR. Or do they plough on ahead relying on bus size to push back cars. If there was an accident with it in the wrong lane I wonder how it would pan out.

I had in the back of my mind the possibility of a tip with a car as someone honked at me last week when he was trying to undertake me exiting on the left towards Threadneedle.

Cheshire Cat

I drive along that road regularly and buses do move into the right hand lane, even though a lot of drivers don't like to let them in to join the right hand lane. But that's another story!

[Deleted User]

There is no indication on that roundabout that you have to use the right lane to go straight. Per the document shared in this thread:

7.7.14 The Continuous Bus Lane Line should end in advance of any junction with a major left-turning flow, to allow traffic to position itself correctly on the carriageway. The continuous line should be replaced by a Broken Bus Lane Line with a double-headed Bus Lane Ends Arrow variant, M 130L, placed to inform motorists that it is permissible to enter the bus lane prior to making the left-turn.

It's saying you can use the bus lane if you're turning left. 7.7.15 does not apply it's saying it should be used in cases when the nearside lane is restricted. The nearside lane isn't restricted here. M130L itself isn't an indication that it's left turn only but is used in cases when it is.

How long is that arrow there? I passed my driving test a few years ago going through that roundabout using the left lane to go straight.

[Deleted User]

I hear what you're saying but conversely 7.7.15 also says "At the end of a bus lane, a double-headed Bus Lane Ends Arrow, M 130, should be provided to indicate that the nearside lane may be used by all traffic".

The M130 isn't used here, the "nearside lane is restricted to left turning traffic" variant is.

Interesting point on the driving test - my partner was brought up here on driving lessons too and was directed to use the left lane. We chatted to the instructor after and they said yes that question comes up and technically the left lane is left only but they had candidates occasionally fail the test from some testers for using the right lane... it can be appealed but wasn't worth the hassle (!!!).

Markings to this level of detail aren't covered in the theory training and we shouldn't expect people to look up docs if it's open to different interpretation. It should be changed or accompanied with some signage.

bobbyss

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117638281#Comment_117638281

Yes. I think we need two cars exiting at the same time towards Threadneedle, a tip and an ensuing courtcase. That might bring clarity. In the meantime I will continue to use the outer lane and keep an eye out the left mirror.

[Deleted User]

I've emailed the council to see if their current road marking is intended, will see what they say!

bobbyss

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117638351#Comment_117638351

Excellent! Well done.

It will be interesting to see what kind of reply is made.

what_traffic

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117638351#Comment_117638351

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117628836#Comment_117628836

I think this is the issue alright, the sign overrides the road marking. Any feedback from the Council?