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Your New WHS Index

dan_ep82

Just to see if there is a trend at all with the new handicaps.

I know they're aren't really out yet but a few seem to have gotten them already.

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Do not click the resend link for at least an hour. If you click resend you will need to wait on the subsequent email as the token is different as far as i can make out.

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Comments

Seve OB

Miley Byrne wrote: »

Why will it be difficult to get your handicap back down? If you play better it will come down and if not you will find your level

Ah I would hope I will of course but I’m a bit of a streaky player and would have always had a couple of really good rounds in a year which helps to keep the handicap down. Now those rounds can pop out of play quite quickly.

DuckSlice

Yea they don't be long going especially if doing casual play. I like to look ahead and see what i need to shoot to maintain my handicap or improve. I have 2 differentials of 9.1 so even if a round is going bad i have something to aim for.

I have gone from 9.0 to 7.4 this year, my best has been 38pts.
If it was the old system I wouldn't even have got cut probably, that was usually the CSS for my home club.

How streaky are you? could you shoot level par or just as easily shoot a 90?

KevH1984

I'm competition secretary in my club and while we have seen a few big scores win competitions - 46 pts there at the weekend - on the whole scores haven't been outrageous. I was 2nd in one competition with 39 pts for example. We also have the rule where new members can't win a major which is fair but who are we to say they can't collect a prize or win any other non major. They are starting off the same way every one of us did when we picked up the game. I can imagine if we decided every prize winner had to have 20+ cards in first we'd have a mass exodus out the door which is massively counter productive for a club

We have had a large influx of new players with sporting backgrounds join since covid which is great - delighted to have them. All new members complete their 3 cards and have their handicap allocated to them as a result - that system hasn't changed in all the time I'm golfing. Some received low handicaps - 9 or 10 say, some high - 20s or 30s, some in between. But it's all relative to the ability shown in their cards - same as it's always been. I remember getting my first handicap of 16 when I was about 18. I had 49 pts that year in a comp, +3 gross. I'm sure people were giving out with the score but it happens and my handicap was adjusted accordingly under the old system. Golf has always been skewed towards younger lads with high handicaps winning comps starting out who after a year were off single figures or a new member who might have been too high. That has always happened.

I think a lot of people are being quite short sighted with their complaints about scoring and the WHS. It's only really been in use for 3 months and I can definitely see it being a much fairer system for all in the long run. If you have a good score it will adjust your HI appropriately as should be the case. If you're on a bad run of form this will also reflect correctly in an increase - this is much fairer than the old .1 system with CONGU. Some people don't like seeing their handicap go up but the system reflects the level of golf you're playing. I really don't think you can ask for more than that and some people you just can't satisfy.

PabloAndRoy

KevH1984 wrote: »

I'm competition secretary in my club and while we have seen a few big scores win competitions - 46 pts there at the weekend - on the whole scores haven't been outrageous. I was 2nd in one competition with 39 pts for example. We also have the rule where new members can't win a major which is fair but who are we to say they can't collect a prize or win any other non major. They are starting off the same way every one of us did when we picked up the game. I can imagine if we decided every prize winner had to have 20+ cards in first we'd have a mass exodus out the door which is massively counter productive for a club

We have had a large influx of new players with sporting backgrounds join since covid which is great - delighted to have them. All new members complete their 3 cards and have their handicap allocated to them as a result - that system hasn't changed in all the time I'm golfing. Some received low handicaps - 9 or 10 say, some high - 20s or 30s, some in between. But it's all relative to the ability shown in their cards - same as it's always been. I remember getting my first handicap of 16 when I was about 18. I had 49 pts that year in a comp, +3 gross. I'm sure people were giving out with the score but it happens and my handicap was adjusted accordingly under the old system. Golf has always been skewed towards younger lads with high handicaps winning comps starting out who after a year were off single figures or a new member who might have been too high. That has always happened.

I think a lot of people are being quite short sighted with their complaints about scoring and the WHS. It's only really been in use for 3 months and I can definitely see it being a much fairer system for all in the long run. If you have a good score it will adjust your HI appropriately as should be the case. If you're on a bad run of form this will also reflect correctly in an increase - this is much fairer than the old .1 system with CONGU. Some people don't like seeing their handicap go up but the system reflects the level of golf you're playing. I really don't think you can ask for more than that and some people you just can't satisfy.

Nailed it!

Ottoman_1000

KevH1984 wrote: »

I'm competition secretary in my club and while we have seen a few big scores win competitions - 46 pts there at the weekend - on the whole scores haven't been outrageous. I was 2nd in one competition with 39 pts for example. We also have the rule where new members can't win a major which is fair but who are we to say they can't collect a prize or win any other non major. They are starting off the same way every one of us did when we picked up the game. I can imagine if we decided every prize winner had to have 20+ cards in first we'd have a mass exodus out the door which is massively counter productive for a club

We have had a large influx of new players with sporting backgrounds join since covid which is great - delighted to have them. All new members complete their 3 cards and have their handicap allocated to them as a result - that system hasn't changed in all the time I'm golfing. Some received low handicaps - 9 or 10 say, some high - 20s or 30s, some in between. But it's all relative to the ability shown in their cards - same as it's always been. I remember getting my first handicap of 16 when I was about 18. I had 49 pts that year in a comp, +3 gross. I'm sure people were giving out with the score but it happens and my handicap was adjusted accordingly under the old system. Golf has always been skewed towards younger lads with high handicaps winning comps starting out who after a year were off single figures or a new member who might have been too high. That has always happened.

I think a lot of people are being quite short sighted with their complaints about scoring and the WHS. It's only really been in use for 3 months and I can definitely see it being a much fairer system for all in the long run. If you have a good score it will adjust your HI appropriately as should be the case. If you're on a bad run of form this will also reflect correctly in an increase - this is much fairer than the old .1 system with CONGU. Some people don't like seeing their handicap go up but the system reflects the level of golf you're playing. I really don't think you can ask for more than that and some people you just can't satisfy.

This is pretty much it...I have a lad who I golf with regularly complaining that his handicap is gone up 4 strokes and its not reflective of his golfing ability. But I've yet to see him hit any of the varying handicaps he has been playing to this summer, so I think he maybe slightly over estimating himself and where his game is at.

Seve OB

Ottoman_1000 wrote: »

This is pretty much it...I have a lad who I golf with regularly complaining that his handicap is gone up 4 strokes and its not reflective of his golfing ability. But I've yet to see him hit any of the varying handicaps he has been playing to this summer, so I think he maybe slightly over estimating himself and where his game is at.

And then he will get it together and shoot 48 points and everyone will be calling him a bandit.

Ottoman_1000

Seve OB wrote: »

And then he will get it together and shoot 48 points and everyone will be calling him a bandit.

Well his current handicap is 18 on WHS and he reckons he should be close to 14. For him to score 48 points he would have to shoot roughly 6 over par gross which I just cant see happening.

lettuce97

Is there a small issue with the 95% competition handicap? I've just gone from a course handicap of 10 to 11, so from a handicap point of view I'd now have a shot on the index 11 - but because I don't in a singles competition, I'll often pick up if I don't make bogey or better. I've just realised that in theory this could have an affect on my handicap index...

prawnsambo

lettuce97 wrote: »

Is there a small issue with the 95% competition handicap? I've just gone from a course handicap of 10 to 11, so from a handicap point of view I'd now have a shot on the index 11 - but because I don't in a singles competition, I'll often pick up if I don't make bogey or better. I've just realised that in theory this could have an affect on my handicap index...

No it won't Playing handicap is only used for competitions, not handicap. If you scratch a hole, you get nett double bogey and since playing handicap is either the same or less than course handicap, there's no situation where you're picking up when you have less than NDB.

lettuce97

prawnsambo wrote: »

No it won't Playing handicap is only used for competitions, not handicap. If you scratch a hole, you get nett double bogey and since playing handicap is either the same or less than course handicap, there's no situation where you're picking up when you have less than NDB.

So playing handicap is used in handicap calcs, as opposed to course handicap? Good to know, thanks

prawnsambo

lettuce97 wrote: »

So playing handicap is used in handicap calcs, as opposed to course handicap? Good to know, thanks

No. Playing handicap is 95% of course handicap for singles competitions. It's different for different formats, but it has no impact on your handicap calculation.

lettuce97

prawnsambo wrote: »

No. Playing handicap is 95% of course handicap for singles competitions. It's different for different formats, but it has no impact on your handicap calculation.

Yes, but which is used for handicap calculations - playing or course?

If it's playing, then when playing in a singles you could feasibly pick up when you might have a tap in for a single point if you were playing off your course handicap and so enter a score 1 shot/point worse than is accurate

prawnsambo

lettuce97 wrote: »

Yes, but which is used for handicap calculations - playing or course?

If it's playing, then when playing in a singles you could feasibly pick up when you might have a tap in for a single point if you were playing off your course handicap and so enter a score 1 shot/point worse than is accurate

Your course handicap is used in your handicap calculation, not your playing handicap. Playing handicap is just used for competitions.

When you pick up the ball you enter the score as a scratch. That is taken as NDB in calculating your adjusted gross score for handicap purposes and is based on your course handicap. So if your CH is 12 (PH=11) and you pick up the ball on the par 4 index 12 (on which you have no shots with a PH of 11) after five strokes, that is taken as a 7 when calculating your AGS for the round. If you tap in your putt for a six you still get zero points, but 6 is taken in your handicap calculation instead of 7.

That's it. There are no extra points to be had.

galwaylad1980

Forgive me if this has already been covered, but is there anything in the WHS rules about playing the front 9 of a round as a warm up and then putting in just the back 9 to count towards your handicap??

In simpler terms, can a player play the front 9, then stand on the 10th tee and declare that the back 9 is going towards h/c and sign into the Golf Ireland app just for the back 9?

dan_ep82

Technically you will have declared the back nine before playing it but it does sound like a bit of a grey area. I presume the "you can't practice on the course that day you play a comp" will not apply to a casual counting score or am I wrong?

I'm sure it would work though, I forgot to finalise the round I was playing a few weeks ago and didn't notice it until I was half way down the second and it went through no problem.

lettuce97

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117610392#Comment_117610392

Finally get to respond!

I wasn't saying you get an extra point, actually the opposite. In the scenario you outlined, the score submitted for handicapping is actually 1 worse than reality, as you picked up when your course handicap would have given you a single point. Obviously this is exaggerated when handicaps are higher - i.e. there could be 2 holes where you picked up instead of tapping in for a point.

prawnsambo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117611929#Comment_117611929

The course handicap only comes into play in your handicap calculation. That is your actual handicap for handicap purposes. It's used in calculating your adjusted gross score. Your playing handicap is separate and only used for competition purposes. When you pick the ball up, the competition correctly takes that as zero points. The adjusted gross score in your handicap calculation takes it as nett double bogey. It's as simple as that.

lettuce97

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117612133#Comment_117612133

Exactly, but my question has always been about handicap calculations - not competition score.

In your example, you pick up on a par 4 after 5 which goes down as nett double (ie 7) on your handicap calculation. Say this gives you a gross score of 88 for your handicap record. If you had tapped in for your 6, on your handicap record it would be 87. Theoretically if this happened on each of your 8 best scores, your index would be 1 full shot higher than it should be.

Unless I'm missing something?

prawnsambo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117612291#Comment_117612291

Well firstly it wouldn't be one full shot higher. The calculation for score differential takes in the course and slope rating, so it would be very unlikely to be a 1.0 difference. Typically more like 0.7 or 0.8.

But practically speaking, you're talking about picking up when you've a holeable putt; which would be some coincidence to be in exactly the same position on the same hole in all eight of your best rounds. I know I'd hole out even if it's for zero points as it's hardly going to be a time-wasting exercise like looking for your second drive in long grass after taking two from the tee on a par 4 that you've no shots on.

But generally, yes, people should be aware of this and know what the ramifications are when picking up. Even if (as I say) it's unlikely to make much (if any) difference to your handicap given it has to be on one particular hole in very particular circumstances and in one or more of your eight best rounds in 20.

slingerz

Question about the increase. So it’s 2 shots from your lowest when you hit the ‘soft cap’ and increase are halved until you reach 5 shot increase.

what happens at the end of the year, say I’ve gone up 3.4 shots from my lowest? Come Jan 1st does it recalculate which might push me to 4.8 shots of an increase and then another 2 from there over the year or how does it work

finglashoop

played an away open yesterday

entered score in computer. the result is on hdid but not on my golf ireland record.

slingerz

prawnsambo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613011#Comment_117613011

It's based on your lowest index in the last twelve months. So it's a rolling calculation.

prawnsambo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613055#Comment_117613055

Was it a handicap counting competition? That's one reason for it not being there.

finglashoop

yeah it was an open. played with brother. his score is up on golf ireland. mine isnt.

slingerz

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613585#Comment_117613585

Sorry I don’t understand this. If I finish on 31 Dec up 3.4 shots the best 8 of my last 20 should be actually up 4.8 from my lowest in the 12 months. Is it a case on the 1st January that the handicap goes up 4.8 from what it was on the previous Jan 1st and then increase a further 2.0 before hitting the soft cap again in 2022?

prawnsambo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613926#Comment_117613926

The calendar year has nothing to do with it. The soft and hard caps are taken from your lowest score differential in the last twelve months. So if your lowest SD was achieved in August last year, then (unless you go lower in the intervening period), that doesn't run out until August this year when the next lowest in the last twelve months is substituted for it.

prawnsambo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613774#Comment_117613774

In that case it's possible that they re-opened the competition to add missing scores. This would take your score off GI until it's closed again afaik.

Seve OB

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117611416#Comment_117611416

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117611767#Comment_117611767

But he hasn’t played the course. Back 9 is a different course.

might be unethical, but I can’t see anything to suggest it is not allowed

slingerz

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614046#Comment_117614046

Ok so my lowest was my starting handicap in 1st Jan which didn’t change until we got back golfing. Is it the May date that it was at its lowest that is the 12 months then!?