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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

CorkGunJonny

Anyone know what channel it's on? The jim sheridan documentary about sophie toscan du plantier

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[Deleted User]

bemak wrote: »

If Bailey is guilty I don't buy that he went home first and then walked all the way across to Sophies. He might have walked home (or have been collected by Jules) but he would have gone back to Sophies with her IMO.

For me, the fact that Jules has stood by Bailey's version of events would mean that A) she is involved herself somehow or Bailey is innocent. If Bailey is guilty would she have had her daughters stay with them knowing he was capable of that? Is Jules crosseyed because of the assaults by Bailey? She was fine in earlier videos/photos? Must be an awful thing, especially for an artist.

The podcast says it is a 36 minute walk between the houses. That is not long. I do a walk out every day to end of my road and back that is about that length each way. I consider any people along that road to be my close neighbours.

MoonUnit75

EdHoven wrote: »

He was a crime reporter. Surely by watching cop shows we all know now "No Comment" is the best policy for anybody.
He must have known that. Supposedly he and Jules had been comparing notes to get their story straight. Why not just agree to go "No Comment"?

It sounds like the critical moment was when the gardai told Jules during her first arrest that she could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting an offender and perverting the course of justice. Only then did she tell them IB actually did get out of bed and came in the next morning with a fresh cut on his forehead. JT later denied she told the gardai that but when they put it to IB he suddenly remembered he did get up 'to write an article'. JT never mentioned an article in her statement but in the podcast says she clearly remembers him showing her an article he had written during the night and it was sitting on the kitchen table. Riiiiiiiiight.

[Deleted User]

isha wrote: »

Well, yikes, unless I am hearing things!

part 9 at 9.25 in

bemak

If Bailey is guilty I don't buy that he went home first and then walked all the way across to Sophies. He might have walked home (or have been collected by Jules) but he would have gone back to Sophies with her IMO.

For me, the fact that Jules has stood by Bailey's version of events would mean that A) she is involved herself somehow or

Bailey is innocent. If Bailey is guilty would she have had her daughters stay with them knowing he was capable of that? Is Jules crosseyed because of the assaults by Bailey? She was fine in earlier videos/photos? Must be an awful thing, especially for an artist.

monkeybutter

EdHoven wrote: »

He was a crime reporter. Surely by watching cop shows we all know now "No Comment" is the best policy for anybody.
He must have known that. Supposedly he and Jules had been comparing notes to get their story straight. Why not just agree to go "No Comment"?

if they were comparing notes to get their stories straight, then surely the alibi would be the first on the agenda

why would a garda go to his house in the first place to give him forewarning, this is one of the maddest thing in the netflix doc

thecretinhop

some lad on classic fm got a hard on against bailey now

[Deleted User]

SoulWriter wrote: »

OK thanks

Well, yikes, unless I am hearing things!

monkeybutter

EdHoven wrote: »

I think the story is she flew into Dublin and got a connecting flight to Cork.
Daniel TduP said she was flying back into Toulouse from Ireland on Christmas Eve on Aer Lingus. Maybe some AV geek could find out if there were flights from Dublin to Toulouse in 1996.
It seems to me all the research has gone into IB and obvious questions around the how and why of her visit are ignored.

you thing the gardai dont know where she flew into?

they know the how and the why to any reasonable level

Theres no chance there was a cork toulouse flight around december in 1996

EdHoven

Henry... wrote: »

That was the standout moment for me early on

The guy just literally changes his tune when his partner incriminates him

Not buying his excuse for the scratches either

Still only half way through

He was a crime reporter. Surely by watching cop shows we all know now "No Comment" is the best policy for anybody.
He must have known that. Supposedly he and Jules had been comparing notes to get their story straight. Why not just agree to go "No Comment"?

[Deleted User]

isha wrote: »

Just finished part 9, so it was either in part 8 or 9. He used to carry around a book by Crowley.

OK thanks

[Deleted User]

SoulWriter wrote: »

Don't recall that. What part of the podcast do you rememeber?

Just finished part 9, so it was either in part 8 or 9. He used to carry around a book by Crowley.

[Deleted User]

isha wrote: »

Motive would be sex. It is a huge motive in such crimes.
Bailey, I am learning from the podcast, also was a fan of Aleister Crowley - why am I not surprised.

As for getting involved so visibly from the beginning and being so vocal instead of keeping schtum, I keep remembering that boy in Cork who was killed, Robert Holohan, and how his killer joined the search parties. He even complained to Garda about daylight hours being lost in the search due to briefings. And that went on for 8 long days. And all the time O' Donoghue knew where the boy's body was and what had happened.

Edited 12 to 8 days

Don't recall that. What part of the podcast do you rememeber?

EdHoven

leath_dub wrote: »

I listened to that podcasr. Nicola Tallant and Donal McIntyre were all over the place with details, for example:

THey said Sophie had visited West Cork several times before her marriage (at lest 5 or 6 times). In fact it was stated elsewhere that Daniel Du Plantier had bought the cottage for his wife

Nicola Tallant said that Sophie had flown into Dublin Airport, hired a car and drve to Schull when it is fact that she flew into Cork

Nicola Tallant also stated the body was foind on the morning of December 21st

I wouldn't place much faith in any of the theories proposed in that podcast given how sloppily done it was

I think the story is she flew into Dublin and got a connecting flight to Cork.
Daniel TduP said she was flying back into Toulouse from Ireland on Christmas Eve on Aer Lingus. Maybe some AV geek could find out if there were flights from Dublin to Toulouse in 1996.
It seems to me all the research has gone into IB and obvious questions around the how and why of her visit are ignored.

Gussie Scrotch

isha wrote: »

Motive would be sex. It is a huge motive in such crimes.
Bailey, I am learning from the podcast, also was a fan of Aleister Crowley - why am I not surprised.

As for getting involved so visibly from the beginning and being so vocal instead of keeping schtum, I keep remembering that boy in Cork who was killed, Robert Holohan, and how his killer joined the search parties. He even complained to Garda about daylight hours being lost in the search due to briefings. And that went on for 12 long days. And all the time O' Donoghue knew where the boy's body was and what had happened.

Yes, fair point.

There are many such cases, the Soham murders spring to mid.

[Deleted User]

Motive would be sex. It is a huge motive in such crimes.
Bailey, I am learning from the podcast, also was a fan of Aleister Crowley - why am I not surprised.

As for getting involved so visibly from the beginning and being so vocal instead of keeping schtum, I keep remembering that boy in Cork who was killed, Robert Holohan, and how his killer joined the search parties. He even complained to Garda about daylight hours being lost in the search due to briefings. And that went on for 8 long days. And all the time O' Donoghue knew where the boy's body was and what had happened.

Edited 12 to 8 days

Caquas

TP_CM wrote: »

The only piece which was missing for me was a motive.

....
But it dawned on me the other night, of course the motive is him having the upper hand and being celebrated as the best investigative journalist who seems to be one step ahead of the rest. Would he be that desperate for attention/approval? Probably?

How was that going to work out for him? Hailed as the next Woodward/Bernstein but reviled as a murderer serving a life sentence!

Even if he is being framed the the Gardai, he should be ashamed of the sleazy fake news he wrote, claiming she was having lovers and wild parties in her cottage. How painful that must have been for her family in the days after her murder when they were shocked and grieving.

Henry...

TP_CM wrote: »

The only piece which was missing for me was a motive. Like he didn't even really know this girl and there were no anecdotes locally of him knowing her. He's in bed after a few drinks and I have to believe he got up, crossed the countryside somehow (how many miles) to kill this lady he didn't know in the freezing cold weather.

But it dawned on me the other night, of course the motive is him having the upper hand and being celebrated as the best investigative journalist who seems to be one step ahead of the rest. Would he be that desperate for attention/approval? Probably?

The motive would be that he knew of her and decided to pay a visit which went wrong and got angry

I'm trying to figure out if he's being deceptive about the murder

Gussie Scrotch

TP_CM wrote: »

The only piece which was missing for me was a motive. Like he didn't even really know this girl and there were no anecdotes locally of him knowing her. He's in bed after a few drinks and I have to believe he got up, crossed the countryside somehow (how many miles) to kill this lady he didn't know in the freezing cold weather.

But it dawned on me the other night, of course the motive is him having the upper hand and being celebrated as the best investigative journalist who seems to be one step ahead of the rest. Would he be that desperate for attention/approval? Probably?

No, probably not. The only plausible motive that has been suggested so far is the sexual one.

But your post did make me think about that angle.

Bailey was, from the outset, from the moment the news broke, super keen to get to the site, get involved and be seen to be involved.

Would a man who had murdered someone a few hours ago, be so anxious the involve himself, to make himself visible, to stick his head above the parapet?

Or would he be more likely to stay schtum, distance himself completely, keep his head down, given that at that point there was nothing whatsoever to make anyone suspect him?

TP_CM

Henry... wrote: »

Halfway through this, came in with an open mind

So far Bailey is incredibly suspicious imo

Lied about the night

Major doubts about the scratches

Confessions

Alfie Lyons 90% sure they met

The only piece which was missing for me was a motive. Like he didn't even really know this girl and there were no anecdotes locally of him knowing her. He's in bed after a few drinks and I have to believe he got up, crossed the countryside somehow (how many miles) to kill this lady he didn't know in the freezing cold weather.

But it dawned on me the other night, of course the motive is him having the upper hand and being celebrated as the best investigative journalist who seems to be one step ahead of the rest. Would he be that desperate for attention/approval? Probably?

chooseusername

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Her first statements after her arrest were probably the closest the gardai felt they ever got to solving the case. Before her arrest all they had was Bailey arriving home and going to bed with Jules for the night. After JT's interview they had:
- a statement showing his previous alibi was false
- that he had not only got out of bed, but had left the house
- that he had a cut on his forehead that wasn't there the night before
- that they had stopped on the way home on the night of the murder, after taking a detour, to 'admire the view' on a hill from where Sophie's house could be seen
- that Bailey had remarked that a light was on in Alfie's house while parked on the hill
- that he suggested they go over to Alfie's that night
- that JT's daughter gave a statement that they both left the house the following morning for around 2 hours when they said they were both at home

They may have seen Sophie's house and the light on in Alfie's house but
not from Hunt's Hill as she said.
They must have driven up the Kealfada road and onto the lane leading to Sophie's house to be able to see it.
As far as I can make out, there is no route they could have taken to be able to see the two houses from the road.

EltonJohn69

leath_dub wrote: »

Ian not welcome in some establishments in Schull:

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1412330797797974019

People aren’t taking the fact that England are going to win the Euros well !

Mackwiss

leath_dub wrote: »

Ian not welcome in some establishments in Schull:

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1412330797797974019

I bet this will be national news by tomorrow

Henry...

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Alfie Lyons had a long running dispute with Sophie nothing to serious but at the same time so for him to say she meet the prime suspect keeps him out of the picture , He was her neighbour & did have a dispute with her, Even if its only subconsciously in his head surely somewhere he'd think people could finger him for it ,

90% like you either introduced them or you didn't

I thought Alfie Lyons is dodgy too every time he speaks

He gives off that vibe

yourdeadwright

Henry... wrote: »

Halfway through this, came in with an open mind

So far Bailey is incredibly suspicious imo

Lied about the night

Major doubts about the scratches

Confessions

Alfie Lyons 90% sure they met

Alfie Lyons had a long running dispute with Sophie nothing to serious but at the same time so for him to say she meet the prime suspect keeps him out of the picture , He was her neighbour & did have a dispute with her, Even if its only subconsciously in his head surely somewhere he'd think people could finger him for it ,

90% like you either introduced them or you didn't

Henry...

Halfway through this, came in with an open mind

So far Bailey is incredibly suspicious imo

Lied about the night

Major doubts about the scratches

Confessions

Alfie Lyons 90% sure they met

Lillyfae

EdHoven wrote: »

Do all these people live in the pub? They are either growing weed, smoking weed, drinking in a pub, drinking at home, having indoor affairs, having outdoor affairs or writing poetry.
It sounds dreadful.

West Cork was notorious for this at the time. Everyone growing their own weed, loads of (mainly British) new age hippies, artists etc etc. I doubt it's changed that much. The Gardaí couldn't give a flying f*ck about what any of them got up to either.

Henry...

[Deleted User] wrote: »

working my way through the West Cork podcast over past few days (nothing like an obsession!) but in Episode 7 ''The Arrest'' at about 28 minutes thereabouts, the change in Jules story re Ian getting out of bed surfaces during interrogation of Jules then Ian in the Garda station.

Ian is suddenly much less definite about everything at this point.
He says ''I don't know'' to questions from the podcasters.
The podcasters say that Jules had said something about Ian leaving the bed. The Gardai said it to Ian. And had mark on forehead.
He says ''I can't remember.... was that in her statement?''

This is a guy who studied for a Law degree to prove his innocence. A guy who has large boxes full of material about the case. A guy who according to the Shelleys was going over these stored materials obsessively. Who is still poking through them 25 years later in the documentaries.

And yet at this crucial turning point when his alibi is being shredded (he is going to now be proven to have been absent from his bed/house from 2/3 am until 9 or 10 am the following morning during which time a murder is committed locally) suddenly he is vague, cannot remember, doesn't know what was said in custody, is that in Jules' statements, etc?

I mean that is the moment one would remember most, surely? If completely innocent that is the oh fcuk moment, if guilty that is equally the oh fcuk moment. And yet all his definitude suddenly deserts him.

That was the standout moment for me early on

The guy just literally changes his tune when his partner incriminates him

Not buying his excuse for the scratches either

Still only half way through

leath_dub

Ian not welcome in some establishments in Schull:

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1412330797797974019

coolisin

Henry... wrote: »

Bailey was certainly very busy with turkeys and Christmas trees the day before the murder

I think I smell a rat there

Not at all, turkeys I have no experience with christmas trees loads!!
Growing up we put xmas trees at different points in Dec, once we didnt get an xmas tree until the 24th.
If your looking at this with 2021's xmas where tress go up in Nov almost you need to stop.

Now I've never climbed a spruce tree to cut the top off, but I've put them into cars and set them up and I have walked away with serious scratches look like a cat attacked me.

Im trying to be objective that he is innocent until actually proven guilty using Irish courts.

But from my own experience a Christmas type tree can scratch you up.

Also a farmer, the step daughter and the gardai do agree with his accounts his climbed a 20ft tree to cut the top off, probably half drunk at the time!

odyssey06

Henry... wrote: »

His story about the tree and turkeys has been shot down imo

They didn't happen that way

This is in the DPP report:
Virginia Oliver (Thomas) in her statement of 2 January 1997 states that “in relation to the scratches on Ian’s hand last week I can verify that Ian killed and plucked three turkeys on the Sunday before Christmas. Ian also climbed to the top of a tree to cut the top off to use as a Christmas tree. I did see his hands scratched when he came down the tree.”

The Sunday before Christmas was the 22nd December.

https://syndicatedanarchy.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/30/