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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

CorkGunJonny

Anyone know what channel it's on? The jim sheridan documentary about sophie toscan du plantier

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EdHoven

Henry... wrote: »

That was the standout moment for me early on

The guy just literally changes his tune when his partner incriminates him

Not buying his excuse for the scratches either

Still only half way through

He was a crime reporter. Surely by watching cop shows we all know now "No Comment" is the best policy for anybody.
He must have known that. Supposedly he and Jules had been comparing notes to get their story straight. Why not just agree to go "No Comment"?

monkeybutter

EdHoven wrote: »

I think the story is she flew into Dublin and got a connecting flight to Cork.
Daniel TduP said she was flying back into Toulouse from Ireland on Christmas Eve on Aer Lingus. Maybe some AV geek could find out if there were flights from Dublin to Toulouse in 1996.
It seems to me all the research has gone into IB and obvious questions around the how and why of her visit are ignored.

you thing the gardai dont know where she flew into?

they know the how and the why to any reasonable level

Theres no chance there was a cork toulouse flight around december in 1996

[Deleted User]

SoulWriter wrote: »

OK thanks

Well, yikes, unless I am hearing things!

thecretinhop

some lad on classic fm got a hard on against bailey now

monkeybutter

EdHoven wrote: »

He was a crime reporter. Surely by watching cop shows we all know now "No Comment" is the best policy for anybody.
He must have known that. Supposedly he and Jules had been comparing notes to get their story straight. Why not just agree to go "No Comment"?

if they were comparing notes to get their stories straight, then surely the alibi would be the first on the agenda

why would a garda go to his house in the first place to give him forewarning, this is one of the maddest thing in the netflix doc

bemak

If Bailey is guilty I don't buy that he went home first and then walked all the way across to Sophies. He might have walked home (or have been collected by Jules) but he would have gone back to Sophies with her IMO.

For me, the fact that Jules has stood by Bailey's version of events would mean that A) she is involved herself somehow or

Bailey is innocent. If Bailey is guilty would she have had her daughters stay with them knowing he was capable of that? Is Jules crosseyed because of the assaults by Bailey? She was fine in earlier videos/photos? Must be an awful thing, especially for an artist.

[Deleted User]

isha wrote: »

Well, yikes, unless I am hearing things!

part 9 at 9.25 in

MoonUnit75

EdHoven wrote: »

He was a crime reporter. Surely by watching cop shows we all know now "No Comment" is the best policy for anybody.
He must have known that. Supposedly he and Jules had been comparing notes to get their story straight. Why not just agree to go "No Comment"?

It sounds like the critical moment was when the gardai told Jules during her first arrest that she could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting an offender and perverting the course of justice. Only then did she tell them IB actually did get out of bed and came in the next morning with a fresh cut on his forehead. JT later denied she told the gardai that but when they put it to IB he suddenly remembered he did get up 'to write an article'. JT never mentioned an article in her statement but in the podcast says she clearly remembers him showing her an article he had written during the night and it was sitting on the kitchen table. Riiiiiiiiight.

[Deleted User]

bemak wrote: »

If Bailey is guilty I don't buy that he went home first and then walked all the way across to Sophies. He might have walked home (or have been collected by Jules) but he would have gone back to Sophies with her IMO.

For me, the fact that Jules has stood by Bailey's version of events would mean that A) she is involved herself somehow or Bailey is innocent. If Bailey is guilty would she have had her daughters stay with them knowing he was capable of that? Is Jules crosseyed because of the assaults by Bailey? She was fine in earlier videos/photos? Must be an awful thing, especially for an artist.

The podcast says it is a 36 minute walk between the houses. That is not long. I do a walk out every day to end of my road and back that is about that length each way. I consider any people along that road to be my close neighbours.

odyssey06

isha wrote: »

The podcast says it is a 36 minute walk between the houses. That is not long. I do a walk out every day to end of my road and back that is about that length each way. I consider any people along that road to be my close neighbours.

Have you ever done the walk by moonlight when drunk?
Not going to do it in 36 minutes.

And I don't think most people would consider someone 30 minutes walking distance to be 'close' neighbours.

Henry...

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

It sounds like the critical moment was when the gardai told Jules during her first arrest that she could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting an offender and perverting the course of justice. Only then did she tell them IB actually did get out of bed and came in the next morning with a fresh cut on his forehead. JT later denied she told the gardai that but when they put it to IB he suddenly remembered he did get up 'to write an article'. JT never mentioned an article in her statement but in the podcast says she clearly remembers him showing her an article he had written during the night and it was sitting on the kitchen table. Riiiiiiiiight.

Highly sus I thought

EdHoven

monkeybutter wrote: »

you thing the gardai dont know where she flew into?

they know the how and the why to any reasonable level

Theres no chance there was a cork toulouse flight around december in 1996

The discussion was about Donal MacIntyre not AGS. He did the heavy lifting for Jim Sheridan's doc.
I just looked online and someone has the Aer Lingus 1997 Summer Schedule and there are no flights Dublin or Cork to Toulouse.
You can read Daniel's interview with French police in Ralph Riegel's book. Daniel says he arranged to pick up Sophie at Toulouse Airport on Christmas Eve. To me that sounds like someone knowing he isn't going to be questioned too closely about inconsistencies in his story.
Which makes me doubt his explanation why she went alone - "for mechanical reasons, to fix the heating".
http://airlinetimetables.blogspot.com/2018/03/aer-lingus-march-1997.html?m=1

listermint

odyssey06 wrote: »

Have you ever done the walk by moonlight when drunk?
Not going to do it in 36 minutes.

And I don't think most people would consider someone 30 minutes walking distance to be 'close' neighbours.

Tbf I don't know how many times this has to be pointed out. But a cloudless moonlit especially full moon night in rural areas is like the place is being floodlit in a stadium. It's a fantastic thing to see and something I'm still not used to living in a rural enough area today.

leath_dub

EdHoven wrote: »

I think the story is she flew into Dublin and got a connecting flight to Cork.
Daniel TduP said she was flying back into Toulouse from Ireland on Christmas Eve on Aer Lingus. Maybe some AV geek could find out if there were flights from Dublin to Toulouse in 1996.
It seems to me all the research has gone into IB and obvious questions around the how and why of her visit are ignored.

They said on that podcast that she flew into Dublin, hired a car and drove down from there

[Deleted User]

odyssey06 wrote: »

Have you ever done the walk by moonlight when drunk?
Not going to do it in 36 minutes.

And I don't think most people would consider someone 30 minutes walking distance to be 'close' neighbours.

But he got up out of bed that night, to write a 500 word article for the press. Have you ever tried doing something like that when drunk?

On one occasion, when he assaulted Jules very badly, he was drunk but driving at the same time. It's not inconceivable that he may have driven close to the house, surely?

chooseusername

chooseusername wrote: »

Attachment not found.

It's 2.5 miles walking (50 mins no shortcuts) or driving (4-5 mins).
Or if walking drunk the difference is staggering.
2 miles as the crow flies.

Attachment not found.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Have you ever done the walk by moonlight when drunk?
Not going to do it in 36 minutes.

And I don't think most people would consider someone 30 minutes walking distance to be 'close' neighbours.

It's 2.5 miles by road , shortcuts not likely.

leath_dub

isha wrote: »

Motive would be sex. It is a huge motive in such crimes.
Bailey, I am learning from the podcast, also was a fan of Aleister Crowley - why am I not surprised.

As for getting involved so visibly from the beginning and being so vocal instead of keeping schtum, I keep remembering that boy in Cork who was killed, Robert Holohan, and how his killer joined the search parties. He even complained to Garda about daylight hours being lost in the search due to briefings. And that went on for 8 long days. And all the time O' Donoghue knew where the boy's body was and what had happened.

Edited 12 to 8 days

Concidentally that guy, Wayne O'Donoghue, had the same solicitor as Ian Bailey - Frank Buttimer
.
Frank gets all the high profile gigs

bb12

EdHoven wrote: »

The discussion was about Donal MacIntyre not AGS. He did the heavy lifting for Jim Sheridan's doc.
I just looked online and someone has the Aer Lingus 1997 Summer Schedule and there are no flights Dublin or Cork to Toulouse.
You can read Daniel's interview with French police in Ralph Riegel's book. Daniel says he arranged to pick up Sophie at Toulouse Airport on Christmas Eve. To me that sounds like someone knowing he isn't going to be questioned too closely about inconsistencies in his story.
Which makes me doubt his explanation why she went alone - "for mechanical reasons, to fix the heating".
http://airlinetimetables.blogspot.com/2018/03/aer-lingus-march-1997.html?m=1

yeah but she could have been flying to back to paris and then connecting to toulouse. they were supposed to be spending new years in africa with friends. wonder were the tickets bought for that

orangerhyme

bemak wrote: »

If Bailey is guilty I don't buy that he went home first and then walked all the way across to Sophies. He might have walked home (or have been collected by Jules) but he would have gone back to Sophies with her IMO.

For me, the fact that Jules has stood by Bailey's version of events would mean that A) she is involved herself somehow or Bailey is innocent. If Bailey is guilty would she have had her daughters stay with them knowing he was capable of that? Is Jules crosseyed because of the assaults by Bailey? She was fine in earlier videos/photos? Must be an awful thing, especially for an artist.

This is the part I find hard to accept, if Jules had any suspicion why would she keep him in the house with 3 daughters!? Unless they're both complicit like Fred and Rose West.

quokula

orangerhyme wrote: »

This is the part I find hard to accept, if Jules had any suspicion why would she keep him in the house with 3 daughters!? Unless they're both complicit like Fred and Rose West.

She already kept him in her house with 3 daughters after he beat her viciously. Whether or not he actually did it, the fact that he's a violent man capable of doing it has never been in doubt so I don't think you can count the fact that Jules stuck with him as meaning anything one way or another.

odyssey06

Xander10 wrote: »

But he got up out of bed that night, to write a 500 word article for the press. Have you ever tried doing something like that when drunk?

On one occasion, when he assaulted Jules very badly, he was drunk but driving at the same time. It's not inconceivable that he may have driven close to the house, surely?

I think I'd stand more chance with the article than the walk on a chilly December night? He wasn't a military man who might have expected to be hardened to such things.

It's not inconceivable he drove but no one saw or heard the car and the Garda case was that he was seen on foot by Marie Farrell which makes even less sense...

chooseusername

orangerhyme wrote: »

This is the part I find hard to accept, if Jules had any suspicion why would she keep him in the house with 3 daughters!? Unless they're both complicit like Fred and Rose West.

She told the Guards that they stopped on the road home and could see Sophie's house and Alfies house with the lights on.
(she later said the Guard made this up)
But if they saw the houses they would have to have been on the lane leading to the houses.

[Deleted User]

odyssey06 wrote: »

Have you ever done the walk by moonlight when drunk?
Not going to do it in 36 minutes.

And I don't think most people would consider someone 30 minutes walking distance to be 'close' neighbours.

How drunk was he?
He says he had a few pints and a whiskey or two. That was to explain how he could get up and be fresh enough to write the article. Either way he himself says he had not drank much that night.
I have walked at similar pace in moonlight, yes. Drunk? It is extremely rare that I have ever been drunk in my life, but I have been able to walk fast in the past while tipsy.
In the very remote country side (like the countryside in west Cork) a 30 minute road walk in any direction is where your closest neighbours live. That's your neighbourhood. That is how we describe ourselves here in a different remote area - these are our next door neighbours.

Henry...

There's a lot of lies at the heart of this story

Even the neighbor

Didn't hear a thing conveniently

Bit hazy about his memory issues as well

90% sure on bailey meeting stdp

EdHoven

bb12 wrote: »

yeah but she could have been flying to back to paris and then connecting to toulouse. they were supposed to be spending new years in africa with friends. wonder were the tickets bought for that

"Clearly, she was very happy with this visit and had been very 'taken' by Mr Ungerer, to such an extent that they formed a work project together. I am saying that in a telephone call that I received on the morning, my wife [Sophie] had told me she had finally intended to return to France on 24 December and that she had been able to get a seat on a flight arriving in Toulouse at 8 p.m., though she had initially anticipated returning on 25 December.

There was no particular reason for this change of plan and it was agreed that I would meet her at Toulouse-Blagnac, on the arrival of the Aer Lingus flight. During the last telephone conversation, Sophie did not make any reference to any particular plan."

I agree it could be another connection but these are Daniel's own words to the police, he says it was Aer Lingus landing Toulouse. Maybe there were flights in the winter schedule.
Also he said the original plan was returning on Xmas Day when there are no flights out of Ireland.
There is an American podcast that says she had return flights (business class) booked for 23rd and 24th. I know they had lots of money but maybe a thousand pounds to do a job a plumber could do for twenty quid makes no sense.

odyssey06

isha wrote: »

How drunk was he?
He says he had a few pints and a whiskey or two. That was to explain how he could get up and be fresh enough to write the article. Either way he himself says he had not drank much that night.
I have walked at similar pace in moonlight, yes. Drunk? It is extremely rare that I have ever been drunk in my life, but I have been able to walk fast in the past while tipsy.
In the very remote country side (like the countryside in west Cork) a 30 minute road walk in any direction is where your closest neighbours live. That's your neighbourhood. That is how we describe ourselves here in a different remote area - these are our next door neighbours.

I don't know, I was making the general point that you can't compare the walking time of somebody physically fresh in good daylight conditions versus someone after midnight having had a few drinks on a chilly December night (albeit moonlit).

Someone in a 30 minute radius are your neighbours or in your 'neighbourhood' but I really think it is a stretch to call that your 'next door' neighbours.
I'm not sure how many houses\estates were between the two properties, that would also be a factor in thinking of people as neighbours.

Gussie Scrotch

Henry... wrote: »

There's a lot of lies at the heart of this story

Even the neighbor

Didn't hear a thing conveniently

Bit hazy about his memory issues as well

90% sure on bailey meeting stdp

Yes, It would be interesting to see the notes on the interviews of Alfie and Shirley.

It could well be that Sophie was viciously attacked, for a relatively prolonged period, within less than 100 yards of their house in an otherwise silent and still environment and they neither saw nor heard anything. Not a scream, not a shout, not even a car engine. But to me it seems curious and I would like to understand why.

FileNotFound

Gussie Scrotch wrote: »

Yes, It would be interesting to see the notes on the interviews of Alfie and Shirley.

It could well be that Sophie was viciously attacked, for a relatively prolonged period, within less than 100 yards of their house in an otherwise silent and still environment and they neither saw nor heard anything. Not a scream, not a shout, not even a car engine. But to me it seems curious and I would like to understand why.

Wrecked and out of it a likely reality.

yourdeadwright

Jules always adamant the Garda made up the story of them stopping and looking down at Sophie's house and IB making comments, The place they said they stopped wouldn't give you a clear view of the house,

Again the Garda making up stories about IB

Also beating you spouse is the lowest of the low but there is a huge difference between doing that and killing a women not know to you ,
You'll find many men who beat there partners would never hurt a fly outside of there own home ,

[Deleted User]

There may have been no sounds. The attack was focused on the head. A first blow to the head can stun a person into silence.