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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Mod:

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

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RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

You are very angry in this post and a single event that you have shoehorned into your theory is not proof of anything.

You are some man for one man Robbie. You can elicit emotions/feelings from words on a screen.

You said the above was a “giant fallacy” (your exact words), now you’ve back-peddled and they’re true, but “a single event”.

Let’s see if it’s really a single event or can we enter another real world, actual, factual example??

IF a large number of people from a specific foreign culture (Muslim)
IF move to another country (Germany)
IF and don't integrate
THEN they are going to create ghettos (Ehrenfeld)
THEN subcultures that clash with the nation's culture. (Large scale sexual assaults on NYE in Cologne)

Wow, so it’s not just a single example. Strange that.

bubblypop wrote: »

Actually, I happen to believe it should be mandatory for persons who wish to live in this country to register their residency somewhere.
You're not a fan of the EU then, irexit yes?

I’m an EU citizen. If I want to live in Germany for longer than 3 months, I have to register in the city I wish to live in. Did I miss Germzit??

“If you will be staying in Germany for longer than three months, you need to register your address (anmelden) at your local citizens' office (Bürgeramt). Meldepflicht (compulsory registration) requires everyone, whether German or international, to register at their home address.”

Fandymo wrote: »

I’m an EU citizen. If I want to live in Germany for longer than 3 months, I have to register in the city I wish to live in. Did I miss Germzit??

“If you will be staying in Germany for longer than three months, you need to register your address (anmelden) at your local citizens' office (Bürgeramt). Meldepflicht (compulsory registration) requires everyone, whether German or international, to register at their home address.”

Exactly.
In Ireland you don't.

Fandymo wrote: »

You are some man for one man Robbie. You can elicit emotions/feelings from words on a screen.

You said the above was a “giant fallacy” (your exact words), now you’ve back-peddled and they’re true, but “a single event”.

Let’s see if it’s really a single event or can we enter another real world, actual, factual example??

IF a large number of people from a specific foreign culture (Muslim)
IF move to another country (Germany)
IF and don't integrate
THEN they are going to create ghettos (Ehrenfeld)
THEN subcultures that clash with the nation's culture. (Large scale sexual assaults on NYE in Cologne)

Wow, so it’s not just a single example. Strange that.

Now now fandymo, don't be coming out with numerous examples of failures of the good ship multiculturalism in Europe, poor Robbie hasn't a leg to stand on n won't be debating it!
Now you seem very angry fandymo, let's talk about this instead! Are u scared too?!!

There ya go Robbie, that's the next 2 pages sorted!

bubblypop wrote: »

Exactly.
In Ireland you don't.

So the EU is not stopping us from doing it? Why would we need Irexit to implement it?

Fandymo wrote: »

So the EU is not stopping us from doing it? Why would we need Irexit to implement it?

I never suggested we would?

bubblypop wrote: »

I never suggested we would?

LOL gotta say you're pretty funny bubbly.

You make a good point about the EU open border that doesn't seem to be understood by a few.

MarkEadie wrote: »

LOL gotta say you're pretty funny bubbly.

You make a good point about the EU open border that doesn't seem to be understood by a few.

Posters here are funny!
They complain about non EU immigrants, even though we know exactly how many and who the non EU persons.living here are.
They say there is no issue with EU immigrants.........
Even though every single EU passport holder can come into the country and live here, wherever they want with no mandatory registration or anything like it. We have no idea who those people are.

Tbf, a lot of posters don't seem to understand anything about who can live here, or the difference between visa holders, EU or UK citizens, asylum seekers or refugees!

bubblypop wrote: »

I never suggested we would?

No, of course you didn’t. I’m not getting sucked in. Absolutely pointless chatting with someone who will deny and twist what they’ve said less than 10 posts ago. G’dluck.

Fandymo wrote: »

No, of course you didn’t. I’m not getting sucked in. Absolutely pointless chatting with someone who will deny and twist what they’ve said less than 10 posts ago. G’dluck.

You should also try reading posts correctly!

bubblypop wrote: »

...They complain about non EU immigrants, even though we know exactly how many and who the non EU persons.living here are.

A bold statement!

bubblypop wrote: »

Posters here are funny!

Indeed!

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

A bold statement!

Indeed!

True actually, I should acknowledge, illegals perhaps not, but there would be recorded when they enter, either on a visa or other means.
No Idea about EU passport holders here however......

bubblypop wrote: »

True actually, I should acknowledge, illegals perhaps not, but there would be recorded when they enter, either on a visa or other means.
No Idea about EU passport holders here however......

Bubbypop, might be just better to acknowledge there's 1000s of nonEU nationals in the state, and we have no idea who or where they are, or when they got here, and maybe less filibustering.

Movemnet of EU citizens are a separate matter.

SchrodingersCat

TomTomTim wrote: »

Just because some sociologists have came up with new ways to call people racist, doesn't mean that they should be validated.

Deleted User wrote: »

Scholars and theorists need to continue adding ideas and expanding concepts to stay relevant for funding, and professor positions.

Ah yes. Those Goddam pesky sociologists. What would them money-hungry, egg-head scientists know? Sure they only have to make use of tried and true methods of research, such as experiments, surveys, field research, and publish in peer reviewed journals. Its not like they would know what constitutes cultural racism as well as the posters here. /s

fvp4 wrote: »

Surely though some cultures are incompatible.
The history of the world and actuality of the world we live in now shows all kinds of religious, cultural and sectarian conflicts within societies and countries that lead to civil conflict, and sometimes civil war. Northern Ireland is an example.

Northern Ireland is an example of cultures that were thought to have been incompatible learning to co-exist with one another. The North is a very different place today with a power-sharing government than what it was during the height of the Troubles.

SchrodingersCat

Wibbs wrote: »

Or a realist when considering the breadth of world history and the conflicts of same. The major difference being that A) cultures change, "races" do not. there are no fundamental differences of potential intellect and capabilities between populations C) cultures can most certainly be incompatible around things they both hold so dear, if from oppossing sides D) and this is the stumbling block as we've seen, one can respect cultures, but at the same time see where they're lacking in comparison to "our" own. That goes both ways too. Again - and because it has been studiously avoided - to take the same local Irish baseline and the same "race", but a cultural difference over time. I am quite sure while you might see plenty of positives you would consider the attitudes and mores of 1940's Ireland towards women, Gays, foreigners, Choice and a few others to be inferior, sorry, negatives when compared to the attitudes and mores of 1940's Ireland towards same. I doubt you'd use the "ah well maybe they thought they were positive and superior" angle, but we'll see. Further, would you see those same attitudes and mores of 1940's Ireland as being incompatible with the majority in 2020's Ireland? Same "race", just a difference of a few decades. Barely a short whizz into the ocean of human history. Put it another way; would you be all happy to see say 80,000 of such 1940's Irish people and their cultural attitudes show up and create enough of a voting bloc to possibly change things back? And like I say it can go both ways too. This would be actual cultural relativism in play if we want to be truly objective here. Not so easy as we all have our biases, the ones that confidently claim they don't usually have more. No matter what their personal politic. 1940's Ireland's culture would be horror struck and breaking the glass on the emergency Rosary beads box at the thoughts of the 2020's Ireland of Gay rights, contraception, SSM, Choice. Never mind the "permissive society" and Sexual Revolution. Attacks of the vapours, Novenas of Grace, pulpits exploding all over the place and seventeen Hail Marys and ten Our Fathers. Would their cultural attitudes be equal to ours, not inferior or superior, just because they hold them dear and believe so fervently in them? Or are they a "blank slate" that we can write upon in our own image? There can certainly be an element in that going on. More's to the point, if we go the route of "cultural relativism" of no judgement of cultures because it's all subjective and racist and nobody can truly judge; How can you hope for culture to improve for more people living within it and not just the majority view? Further; how do you know your attitudes and mores are the right ones? That right there is the major problem with laissez faire philosophies, they are mired in their own inaction and can't progress, or progress comes slowly. As I noted on another thread when folks were talking about culture and dodgy notions and how we are as individuals; you are not a sexist, homophobe, racist and all the rest, not because it came somehow magically to you. It almost certainly didn't. Those that start the fight against their culture wishing to change things are a tiny minority. You're not all of those things because you live in a culture that informed you that these were incompatible with your culture, that judged that they were, wrong. We can 100% certainly agree there that actual racists may twist it to their own ends in an attempt to hide their tracks. Though many theories can be twisted, it depends on who's doing the twisting. Even neutral scientific theories. Darwin a classic. I don't think there's a politic who haven't had a go at mashing that square peg into their self constructed round hole. From Communists to Fascists and all points between. Though I will say I would hold a candle for the progressive types as they tend to genuinely and optimistically, if naively IMHO, feel that things aren't so determinist and that there's always hope. They can irritate me, but by god they generally make for better company, and better neighbours. The "right" tend to cling to a twisted form of Darwinian determinism, ranting about doleheads and "their" taxes, where they naively believe in the perfect society they'd be the ones ending up on top. QV Libertarians. Sorry sunshine, you're not John Galt.

You have been called out for these posts by the main moderators before, Wibbs:

pickarooney wrote: »

No, Wibbs. You don't simply get to lay down the rules and drag people into endless, tiresome, pages-long back and forth with no discernible aim apart from victory through exhaustion.

You want to validate ugly stereotypes and mean-spirited judgements through whatever links and references you deem fit for purpose, knock yourself out. But don't pretend you actually believe in equality of opportunity while espousing these prejudices.

Wibbs wrote: »

it seems no straight answers are forthcoming

Don't be surprised if posters with a life outside of Boards don't have the time to dissect, decipher and respond promptly to these meandering posts in the thread. If you wish to redefine what cultural racism is, then go ahead and change the definition on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_racism See how long it survives before the majority correct it back.

I can't speak about others but I'm very unapologetic about my cultural racism.

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Bubbypop, might be just better to acknowledge there's 1000s of nonEU nationals in the state, and we have no idea who or where they are, or when they got here, and maybe less filibustering.

Movemnet of EU citizens are a separate matter.

Really?
How do you think they get in?

You don't have an issue with EU immigrants here without our knowledge?

bubblypop wrote: »

Really?
How do you think they get in?

You don't have an issue with EU immigrants here without our knowledge?

bubblypop wrote: »

True actually, I should acknowledge, illegals perhaps not, but there would be recorded when they enter, either on a visa or other means.
No Idea about EU passport holders here however......

You'd never get your argument together would you?
You're now contradicting yourself.

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

You'd never get your argument together would you?
You're now contradicting yourself.

But you seem to think we have no details of non EU immigrants, not true, all non EU immigrants have to get in with a visa or as a refugee or asylum seeker.
So, how do you think there are thousands here that we don't know? How are they getting in?

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Ah yes. Those Goddam pesky sociologists. What would them money-hungry, egg-head scientists know?

Before I started working in Universities, I had a high opinion of PHD holders and the research that was released. Since then, however, that respect has become rather selective.. because there's a ****-ton of politics involved with, both what's funded, and what's published. Oh sure, many people get to publish their ideas in niche magazines, but to reach the point where others of your specialty are reading/writing... conformity to certain ideas is required. That was different forty-fifty years ago, as the avenues for publishing were broader but we live in a much more regulated world now, where peer opinion becomes incredibly more important, especially when dealing with social issues..

As for what they know or don't know... any time I see a paper on racism or most social issues, I tend to consider bias. You should too.

Sure they only have to make use of tried and true methods of research, such as experiments, surveys, field research, and publish in peer reviewed journals. Its not like they would know what constitutes cultural racism as well as the posters here. /s

That's what? The third time you've posted the same link to that definition of cultural racism. I had thought you might have provided some links to prove the idea to us, and counter our objections, but nah...

Even within the link you provided, it assigns a small segment for clarification:

"“Cultural racism” is not yet a standard label in the race and racism literature, especially in the United States. It is virtually absent in the anthropological literature and has only recently appeared in the U.S. sociological literature (Bonilla-Silva 2003). It is more common in the European literature (Modood 2005) and among U.S. scholars familiar with European debates on race (Wylie 2001). Yet even when scholars use the term “cultural racism,” they do not necessarily employ it in the same way."

Let's try a segment from one of these scholars:

"Precisely for the reason that we have, these days, so much racism yet so few racists, cultural racism is not, in most cases, propagated by people whom we would want to label "racists." The doctrine is theory, not prejudice. Those scholars who advocate one or another form of it are people who believe that they are dealing with facts, and with the policy implications of these facts. Most of them reject prejudice and are not prejudiced. They simply believe that there are straightforward empirical reasons, grounded in cultural differences, which explain why some groups and individuals are backward"

bubblypop wrote: »

But you seem to think we have no details of non EU immigrants, not true, all non EU immigrants have to get in with a visa or as a refugee or asylum seeker.
So, how do you think there are thousands here that we don't know? How are they getting in?

Where did I say that?

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Bubbypop, might be just better to acknowledge there's 1000s of nonEU nationals in the state, and we have no idea who or where they are, or when they got here, and maybe less filibustering.

Movemnet of EU citizens are a separate matter.

Here you go
Thousands of non EU nationals in the state that we don't know.
But we do know them, because we had to know them for them to get into the State.

bubblypop wrote: »

Here you go
Thousands of non EU nationals in the state that we don't know.
But we do know them, because we had to know them for them to get into the State.

No we dont

bubblypop wrote: »

Here you go
Thousands of non EU nationals in the state that we don't know.
But we do know them, because we had to know them for them to get into the State.

This is like arguing with a religious nut and their evidence for gods existence is because he said he exists....

bubblypop wrote: »

They complain about non EU immigrants, even though we know exactly how many and who the non EU persons.living here are.

"Exactly"
Not "approximately". Or "we've an estimate".
But "exactly"

We've a sieve of a border.
Here's just three recent articles from Google of lads being found in lorries.

https://m.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/truck-driver-arrested-after-two-illegal-immigrants-were-found-hiding-in-sleeper-cab-at-rosslare-europort-39798391.html

https://www.thejournal.ie/clondalkin-ballyfermot-illegal-immigrants-5276648-Nov2020/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30965863.html

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

"Exactly"
Not "approximately". Or "we've an estimate".
But "exactly"

We have an idea of the numbers because many of them have been caught by the Gardai working illegally, or trying to claim benefits. The problem being that there's no political will to deport illegals, and so they're let go with their details being taken. That's it. You break our immigration laws and you're allowed back into society.

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

This is like arguing with a religious nut and their evidence for gods existence is because he said he exists....

"Exactly"
Not "approximately". Or "we've an estimate".
But "exactly"

We've a sieve of a border.
Here's just three recent articles from Google of lads being found in lorries.

https://m.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/truck-driver-arrested-after-two-illegal-immigrants-were-found-hiding-in-sleeper-cab-at-rosslare-europort-39798391.html

https://www.thejournal.ie/clondalkin-ballyfermot-illegal-immigrants-5276648-Nov2020/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30965863.html

You’re wasting your time.

Anyone in the U.K., from any country in the world, can get to Belfast and jump on a bus and be in Dublin in 3 hours, with no stops for visas, no passport controls, nothing. But the government knows “exactly” who’s here through some kind of osmosis or something.

Cordell wrote: »

I can't speak about others but I'm very unapologetic about my cultural racism.

Actually, I don't appreciate the term. It's intended to guilt trip people into thinking there is something wrong with it.
Let's call it "objective cultural evaluation"

*I'm perfectly aware that I quoted myself.

Cordell wrote: »

Actually, I don't appreciate the term. It's intended to guilt trip people into thinking there is something wrong with it.
Let's call it "objective cultural evaluation"

*I'm perfectly aware that I quoted myself.

I agree. There's a lovely phrase I picked up years ago. "Language structures consciousness", and it applies well here. The use of language affects the associations we make and the manner of our understanding.

Linking racism to criticism of a culture is ridiculous and should be challenged at every opportunity. Same with the phrases like mansplaining, or whatever new term is introduced to set the narrative and marginalise others opinions on a topic. We have seen how various movements have sought to alter the meanings of words or invent new ones to benefit themselves (usually with a massive application of double standards). This is more of the same.

Sociology should be taken with an extreme pinch of salt. There are layers of biases and agendas within the whole "discipline", especially if people consider that sociology is where Radical Feminism and race theorists found a place to develop their theories, but present them as fact.

Fandymo wrote: »

You’re wasting your time.

Anyone in the U.K., from any country in the world, can get to Belfast and jump on a bus and be in Dublin in 3 hours, with no stops for visas, no passport controls, nothing. But the government knows “exactly” who’s here through some kind of osmosis or something.

So, you agree with me then, as I said, anyone from the EU or UK can come right on in, noone here knows anything about them.
Any non EU immigrants coming to Ireland are known.

bubblypop wrote: »

So, you agree with me then, as I said, anyone from the EU or UK can come right on in, noone here knows anything about them.
Any non EU immigrants coming to Ireland are known.

As I said pointless engaging with you.

It does not matter if someone is from Ghana (non-EU), Mongolia (non-EU), Australia (non-EU), China (non-EU), Pakistan (non-EU). Pick LITERALLY any non-EU country world wide. If they can get to the U.K., they can enter Ireland with no visa, no passport control, no oversight.

Nothing.

Just like the guy who murdered Yosuke Sasaki. Strolled in, no bother.

Are you really unable to see that? Or just on the wind up??