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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

brianhere

All social/population control measures introduced by the state security apparatus as a result of this health scare will be, and have always intended to be, permanent in my view. Here are a few reasons why:
a) Because they already have shown that they are stringing people along. The publicans, for example, have been assured every couple of weeks for the whole summer that they will be allowed to reopen, but the government had no intention of allowing this. First it was to stop the spread of the disease altogether, then it was 'flattening the curve' and now it is in response to an increase in cases which they know perfectly well had to follow an increase in testing. You don't want to be the donkey chasing the carrot here!

b) Because they have invested so much money and time in changing the whole apparatus of society, in schools for example, and other places. Clearly these changes were not implemented in order to disappear in only a few weeks, they show the planning and expense of permanent measures.

c) Because the state has a record of never releasing back to the population rights that they seized during some panic. A few examples:
i) During the hype about TB in the 1950s the state introduced a voluntary scheme to control the disease in cattle. It involved those who had tested negative for the disease to be given a special tag and the farmer a 'herd number'. This voluntary scheme then evolved into the state controlling all aspects of agricultural activity by only allowing any such activity - even keeping a few hens - with the permission of the state, via compulsory herd numbers.
ii) Similar to this current panic, in the 1970s the state amended earlier WWII legislation to enable it to abolish jury trials. This was a great shock to the legal profession - even to the then President - and affront to the time honoured legal practices in Ireland but it was rushed through on the basis of sunset clauses whereby it would have to be renewed every year, and hence was temporary. Of course it is still with us long after the troubles have ended.
iii) After 9/11 and some hyped episodes like 'underwear bombers', this state and all around the world introduced time consuming and very intrusive security procedures particularly at airports. This of course is still with us long after the scare has died down.

d) This last point I am sure some of you will not get, but I will make it anyway. These measures are being rolled out precisely because they have huge social and population control advantages for the state, hence they are only piggy backing on the virus to do what they have all along planned to do, and hence have no intention of ever releasing you in the future from their newly introduced grip.

So look if you want to get your life back you should join the demonstrations next Saturday at 2.00pm at the Customs House and the Dáil in Dublin. You will not get released from this vice otherwise, they will compel you to harm your own health via vaccines and masks (of course it harms your health by restricting your breathing, and harming your health does not help somebody else), and otherwise we will descend further into this nightmare of Communist style spying on neighbours and bullying people in the name of social conformity.

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crooked cockney villain

King Mob wrote: »

It's that there's a global conspiracy to force nightclubs in Ireland to shut down?

It's undefinable that NPHET members have a vendetta against Ireland's pub culture.

And I can think of a certain nerd in cabinet that would no doubt love to see the back of nightclubs, probably because he never had mates who he could go to one with.

Ted_YNWA

Mod

Off topic posts deleted.

As stated by others, there is a 9/11 sub-forum here.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1489

Grofus

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

I lost circa 7000 euro in savings potential through being forced off work while watching the cost of the tier of house I would buy rise by up to 30K.

, and saving 2.5k lives is not for nothing regardless if you are so heartless to write off elderly like you do. [/quote[

The evidence would suggest that the vast majority of these people have since died regardless.

:pac::pac:

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Yet another "**** the elderly" post.[/quote

Oh ffs. Most of them died anyway.

If the hospitals managed to keep their heads above water when we were running at 8000 plus cases per day how in the feck could they go under when we have 50% of people fully vaccinated and it's the middle of summer?

I'll answer that. Its because the vaccines that are being reported as our saviour don't fkn work as is already being seen with vaccinated folk testing positive and getting very ill.

Grofus

And before someone comes on to say "and yet you deny there's a pandemic" look up antibody dependent enhancement which is one of the very real conditions that the silenced Dr's were trying to inform the public about.
Maybe its a fringe belief

Grofus

Here, saved you the bother
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5

robinph

Grofus wrote: »

I didn't bring up 9/11.

Erm?

Yes you did.

Grofus wrote: »

This probably isn't the post for this but, here goes.
From March 2001 to March 2004 I lived and worked in New Jersey and New York.
A small township on the banks of the Hudson called Weehawken opposite 42nd Street. I could look right down into Times Square from my apartment.
I witnessed 9/11 unfold with my own eyes in utter disbelief...

Ted_YNWA

I dont care who started the 9/11 tangent.

I politely suggested it be directed to the correct forum.

Let's leave it there.

robinph

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

It's undefinable that NPHET members have a vendetta against Ireland's pub culture.

And I can think of a certain nerd in cabinet that would no doubt love to see the back of nightclubs, probably because he never had mates who he could go to one with.

So is the whole pandemic being created in order to shut down pubs and nightclubs in Ireland? How did they manage to convince all other world leaders to follow this fake pandemic plan just so that pubs would be closed in Ireland?

Or are you claiming that they are now just riding on the pandemic, and that the pandemic is real, in order to just take advantage of the situation and shut down all pubs in Ireland? How do you think that will actually play out when pubs and nightclubs around the world are all back open, including in NI, but for some reason Irish pubs and clubs will remain closed permanently? Do you genuinely think that will happen, or that anyone in Ireland actually has the political power to make such a change that would stick through even one election whilst the rest of the world has reopened?

Grofus

robinph wrote: »

Erm?

Yes you did.

Read posts further back chap

astrofool

Grofus wrote: »

Here, saved you the bother
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5

That is not what the paper says, did you read and understand it? I suggest you read it again.

Grofus

astrofool wrote: »

That is not what the paper says, did you read and understand it? I suggest you read it again.

What do assume I think it was saying? Slightly perplexed!

robinph

Grofus wrote: »

What do assume I think it was saying? Slightly perplexed!

Maybe you could set out what it is that you think it was claiming?

Grofus

robinph wrote: »

Maybe you could set out what it is that you think it was claiming?

I was simply providing evidence of the phenomenon known as ADE for those that may not have come across it
I suppose, therefore, I was providing evidence that my claim of ADE exsisted

Dohnjoe

Grofus wrote: »

I'll answer that. Its because the vaccines that are being reported as our saviour don't fkn work as is already being seen with vaccinated folk testing positive and getting very ill.

This is alarmist nonsense

The city was divided into four areas to help determine the threshold for containing the virus. The team said this was achieved after three areas, or about 75% of the population over the age of 18, had been given both doses.

When 95% of adults were fully vaccinated, they said the results showed that:

Deaths fell by 95%
Hospitalisations fell by 86%
Symptomatic cases fell by 80%

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-57309538

saneman

Grofus wrote: »

I was simply providing evidence of the phenomenon known as ADE for those that may not have come across it
I suppose, therefore, I was providing evidence that my claim of ADE exsisted

I suggest you reread the title of the thread, chap. It's not "Give examples of immune response phenomenon in relation to viral infections and vaccines."

Grofus

saneman wrote: »

I suggest you reread the title of the thread, chap. It's not "Give examples of immune response phenomenon in relation to viral infections and vaccines."

Is that all you've got, ignore the tough ones
The point is there is more than enough doubt about the vaccines safety yet media, government agencies etc are continually saying they're 100% when they clearly are not.
The real answer being they just dont know yet.,,! We will all know in time but that does not give me enough confidence right now to roll up my sleeve
The relevance to this thread being, being vaccinated is slowly becoming part of the covid 19 measures 5hat i feel will be demanded to resume what is left of normal life

robinph

Grofus wrote: »

Is that all you've got, ignore the tough ones
The point is there is more than enough doubt about the vaccines safety yet media, government agencies etc are continually saying they're 100% when they clearly are not.
The real answer being they just dont know yet.,,! We will all know in time but that does not give me enough confidence right now to roll up my sleeve

Nice story.

Now about the "all restrictions will be permanent" thing.

Grofus

robinph wrote: »

Nice story.

Now about the "all restrictions will be permanent" thing.

See above

[Deleted User]

Grofus wrote: »

Is that all you've got, ignore the tough ones
The point is there is more than enough doubt about the vaccines safety yet media, government agencies etc are continually saying they're 100% when they clearly are not.
The real answer being they just dont know yet.,,! We will all know in time but that does not give me enough confidence right now to roll up my sleeve

Bit odd of you to accuse other people of ignoring questions given the large amount you have ignore. And the fact you keep announcing that you're going to ignore difficult questions you can't answer.

You are also now outright lying.
No one has claimed that the vaccines are 100% safe. Nothing is. Doctors have been very open about the potential side effects and dangers of the vaccines. The reality is that the risks of the vaccine are far far lower than the risks of the virus.

Now this is something you should know being an expert in pharmaceuticals (when you aren't being an expert pilot). So you are being deliberately dishonest about this.

Why?

Also why do you keep going off on this odd and embarrassing tangents?
Are you not able to point out any permanent measures?

Grofus

King Mob wrote: »

Bit odd of you to accuse other people of ignoring questions given the large amount you have ignore. And the fact you keep announcing that you're going to ignore difficult questions you can't answer.

You are also now outright lying.
No one has claimed that the vaccines are 100% safe. Nothing is. Doctors have been very open about the potential side effects and dangers of the vaccines. The reality is that the risks of the vaccine are far far lower than the risks of the virus.

Now this is something you should know being an expert in pharmaceuticals (when you aren't being an expert pilot). So you are being deliberately dishonest about this.

Why?

Also why do you keep going off on this odd and embarrassing tangents?
Are you not able to point out any permanent measures?

I've heard several reports on the radio where so called experts have stated" the vaccines are 100% safe" so am I lying or are they.
I dont consider a mortality rate of 0.2 any real risk. Mrsa has a mortality rate of 0.3% . Why didn't we lockdown for that.
And stop trying to patronise me, ive never claimed to a pilot. A CAA certified fireman, yes. Wanna see the certs?

Dohnjoe

Grofus wrote: »

Is that all you've got, ignore the tough ones
The point is there is more than enough doubt about the vaccines safety yet media, government agencies etc are continually saying they're 100% when they clearly are not.

This is a lazy trope recycled by anti-vaxxers. Nothing is 100% safe. Vaccines are overwhelmingly safe, however there is always some small risk. That risk v benefit is always relative, e.g. J&J vaccine.

[Deleted User]

Grofus wrote: »

I've heard several reports on the radio where so called experts have stated" the vaccines are 100% safe" so am I lying or are they.

Cool. Provide those quotes then.
Provide any quotes to that effect.

If you can't, then you are lying.

Again doctors and the companies producing the vaccines are very open about the side effect.
No one claims that they are 100% safe. No medicine is.

robinph

Grofus wrote: »

See above

You're going to have to help us out here and link us to your post where you set out which restrictions are permanent, and why they are permanent.

All I'm seeing in your last few pages of posts is claims that you are not running away, as you run away. Claims about other conspiracy theories, then something about vaccines not being safe. No mention of the permanent restrictions.

Grofus

King Mob wrote: »

Cool. Provide those quotes then.
Provide any quotes to that effect.

If you can't, then you are lying.

Again doctors and the companies producing the vaccines are very open about the side effect.
No one claims that they are 100% safe. No medicine is.

Well if that's your angle, why don't you prove i didn't hear them. Pointless post

Grofus

robinph wrote: »

You're going to have to help us out here and link us to your post where you set out which restrictions are permanent, and why they are permanent.

All I'm seeing in your last few pages of posts is claims that you are not running away, as you run away. Claims about other conspiracy theories, then something about vaccines not being safe. No mention of the permanent restrictions.

Define permanent. Forever, for my lifetime, your lifetime, how long is permanent

robinph

Grofus wrote: »

Define permanent. Forever, for my lifetime, your lifetime, how long is permanent

Your conspiracy claim, you tell us.

If you have any of the covid restrictions which are going to be around for generations, but for no reason to do with covid then great, let us know what it is.

But if you only have something that will stick around for a lifetime then we'll take that? What is it?

Do you even have some "permanent" restrictions that you can tell us about which would still exist for a few years post pandemic and can you let us know what the conspiracy is behind those restrictions being kept after covid has passed?

[Deleted User]

Grofus wrote: »

Well if that's your angle, why don't you prove i didn't hear them. Pointless post

Well why can't you prove your own point?
Why aren't you able to provide a single example of what you claim doctors are always saying?

To rational people this is because they don't actually say that.
It could be that you are just mistaken and misremembering things.
It could be that you're just outright lying.

If you aren't, it should be an easy task to show otherwise.

But you can't.

robinph

Grofus wrote: »

Well if that's your angle, why don't you prove i didn't hear them. Pointless post

If you are claiming to have heard things said on the radio then why not state when this was, and who the quotes were being made by?

Your claim, you provide the evidence to back it up.

Grofus

robinph wrote: »

Your conspiracy claim, you tell us.

If you have any of the covid restrictions which are going to be around for generations, but for no reason to do with covid then great, let us know what it is.

But if you only have something that will stick around for a lifetime then we'll take that? What is it?

Do you even have some "permanent" restrictions that you can tell us about which would still exist for a few years post pandemic and can you let us know what the conspiracy is behind those restrictions being kept after covid has passed?

Why does there need to be a conspiracy behind the restrictions, permanent or otherwise.
All the current restrictions are nothing to with COVID-19 and everything to do with control. So take your pick. Which one shall we debate?

Grofus

robinph wrote: »

If you are claiming to have heard things said on the radio then why not state when this was, and who the quotes were being made by?

Your claim, you provide the evidence to back it up.

I can't provide evidence of the radio interview. I remember it was a woman from either Nphet or HSE around two weeks ago.
I can't prove it so I guess I'm lying