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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

brianhere

All social/population control measures introduced by the state security apparatus as a result of this health scare will be, and have always intended to be, permanent in my view. Here are a few reasons why:
a) Because they already have shown that they are stringing people along. The publicans, for example, have been assured every couple of weeks for the whole summer that they will be allowed to reopen, but the government had no intention of allowing this. First it was to stop the spread of the disease altogether, then it was 'flattening the curve' and now it is in response to an increase in cases which they know perfectly well had to follow an increase in testing. You don't want to be the donkey chasing the carrot here!

b) Because they have invested so much money and time in changing the whole apparatus of society, in schools for example, and other places. Clearly these changes were not implemented in order to disappear in only a few weeks, they show the planning and expense of permanent measures.

c) Because the state has a record of never releasing back to the population rights that they seized during some panic. A few examples:
i) During the hype about TB in the 1950s the state introduced a voluntary scheme to control the disease in cattle. It involved those who had tested negative for the disease to be given a special tag and the farmer a 'herd number'. This voluntary scheme then evolved into the state controlling all aspects of agricultural activity by only allowing any such activity - even keeping a few hens - with the permission of the state, via compulsory herd numbers.
ii) Similar to this current panic, in the 1970s the state amended earlier WWII legislation to enable it to abolish jury trials. This was a great shock to the legal profession - even to the then President - and affront to the time honoured legal practices in Ireland but it was rushed through on the basis of sunset clauses whereby it would have to be renewed every year, and hence was temporary. Of course it is still with us long after the troubles have ended.
iii) After 9/11 and some hyped episodes like 'underwear bombers', this state and all around the world introduced time consuming and very intrusive security procedures particularly at airports. This of course is still with us long after the scare has died down.

d) This last point I am sure some of you will not get, but I will make it anyway. These measures are being rolled out precisely because they have huge social and population control advantages for the state, hence they are only piggy backing on the virus to do what they have all along planned to do, and hence have no intention of ever releasing you in the future from their newly introduced grip.

So look if you want to get your life back you should join the demonstrations next Saturday at 2.00pm at the Customs House and the Dáil in Dublin. You will not get released from this vice otherwise, they will compel you to harm your own health via vaccines and masks (of course it harms your health by restricting your breathing, and harming your health does not help somebody else), and otherwise we will descend further into this nightmare of Communist style spying on neighbours and bullying people in the name of social conformity.

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PintOfView

Gortanna wrote: »

I don't think there will be any around because of how long they have been closed and because I can't imagine people queuing up to open nightclubs when they know they could be ordered to close.

I never said they would be banned from existing. I just think it would be very difficult for nightclubs to function properly in Ireland. And pubs.

But why will Ireland be any different to the UK?

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Covid will be a constant threat because of variants and/or the concern over potential variants. Fauci said a couple of months ago that the end game is a universal vaccine that can cover all variants: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/covid-live-updates-fauci-health-officials-testify-jj-vaccine.html

So can we discuss the "all restrictions are permanent" happenings in the US now then, or when they get lifted and are therfore clearly not permanent?

[Deleted User]

robinph wrote: »

You stated that you thought various restrictions would be permanent, and then that nightclubs would no longer exist.

Do you think nightclubs will be banned from ever existing again in Ireland?

If yes then explain why the government would do that.
If no then its clearly not permanent then is it so not to t relavent to the topic of this thread which is to try and discover what the line "all restrictions will be permanent" actually means.

I don't think there will be any around because of how long they have been closed and because I can't imagine people queuing up to open nightclubs when they know they could be ordered to close.

I never said they would be banned from existing. I just think it would be very difficult for nightclubs to function properly in Ireland. And pubs.

[Deleted User]

EyesClosed wrote: »

Ahh look at you bringing other countries back into it... Sorry I thought this was Ireland only...

A quick comparison. There's a difference between making a quick comparison and saying that measures possibly being lifted in England means no more restrictions in Ireland.

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How do you get 'nightclubs will be banned permanently' from what I said? All I'm saying is that I wonder why someone would open a nightclub in Ireland when a precedent for shutting down hospitality venues has now been established in Ireland (and in other countries, but it's more difficult in Ireland in comparison with other countries because of the lack of opposition in Ireland). Imagine someone spends money setting up a nightclub, is open for a day, and then ordered to close because of a new variant or because of a rise in case numbers.

You stated that you thought various restrictions would be permanent, and then that nightclubs would no longer exist.

Do you think nightclubs will be banned from ever existing again in Ireland?

If yes then explain why the government would do that.
If no then its clearly not permanent then is it so not to t relavent to the topic of this thread which is to try and discover what the line "all restrictions will be permanent" actually means.

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You do realise there is a pandemic right? That's why nightclubs aren't open, that's the only reason.

Did I say otherwise?

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Why would the government order all nightclubs to close if Covid isn't a significant threat anymore?

Covid will be a constant threat because of variants and/or the concern over potential variants. Fauci said a couple of months ago that the end game is a universal vaccine that can cover all variants: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/covid-live-updates-fauci-health-officials-testify-jj-vaccine.html

Dohnjoe

Gortanna wrote: »

How do you get 'nightclubs will be banned permanently' from what I said? All I'm saying is that I wonder why someone would open a nightclub in Ireland when a precedent for shutting down hospitality venues has now been established in Ireland (and in other countries, but it's more difficult in Ireland in comparison with other countries because of the lack of opposition in Ireland). Imagine someone spends money setting up a nightclub, is open for a day, and then ordered to close because of a new variant or because of a rise in case numbers.

You do realise there is a pandemic right? That's why nightclubs aren't open, that's the only reason.

EyesClosed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How do you get 'nightclubs will be banned permanently' from what I said? All I'm saying is that I wonder why someone would open a nightclub in Ireland when a precedent for shutting down hospitality venues has now been established in Ireland (and in other countries, but it's more difficult in Ireland in comparison with other countries because of the lack of opposition in Ireland). Imagine someone spends money setting up a nightclub, is open for a day, and then ordered to close because of a new variant or because of a rise in case numbers.

Ahh look at you bringing other countries back into it... Sorry I thought this was Ireland only...

[Deleted User]

astrofool wrote: »

So, when the first nightclub operates in Ireland without masks, you'll be back here to tell everyone you were wrong, right?

Absolutely. I want that to be wrong. I just don't see how it will happen, but not that it couldn't happen.

[Deleted User]

robinph wrote: »

So you don't think that nightclubs will be banned permanently from ever existing again in Ireland then?

You just think there isn't going to be anyone with the idea of setting up a new business and figuring out how to make it survive temporary shutdowns if needed? Or scrap that business and buy it's assets back again after the debts get written off and just do the same thing again.

How do you get 'nightclubs will be banned permanently' from what I said? All I'm saying is that I wonder why someone would open a nightclub in Ireland when a precedent for shutting down hospitality venues has now been established in Ireland (and in other countries, but it's more difficult in Ireland in comparison with other countries because of the lack of opposition in Ireland). Imagine someone spends money setting up a nightclub, is open for a day, and then ordered to close because of a new variant or because of a rise in case numbers.

Smee_Again

EyesClosed wrote: »

What do the government gain from closing night clubs every now and then?
Do you understand how economics works, and why the government actually needs business to be open?

And considering the taxes on alcohol in this country it's a big hole in their finances to fill.

EyesClosed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And the threat of being ordered to close by the Government being ever-present? That wouldn't be a problem?

I don't doubt that there will be a demand for clubbing among young people.

What do the government gain from closing night clubs every now and then?
Do you understand how economics works, and why the government actually needs business to be open?

astrofool

Gortanna wrote: »

Why would anyone take the chance on opening a nightclub in Ireland? The threat of being ordered to close by the Government would be ever-present.

So, when the first nightclub operates in Ireland without masks, you'll be back here to tell everyone you were wrong, right?

Dohnjoe

Gortanna wrote: »

And the threat of being ordered to close by the Government being ever-present? That wouldn't be a problem?

I don't doubt that there will be a demand for clubbing among young people.

Why would the government order all nightclubs to close if Covid isn't a significant threat anymore?

robinph

Gortanna wrote: »

And the threat of being ordered to close by the Government being ever-present? That wouldn't be a problem?

I don't doubt that there will be a demand for clubbing among young people.

So you don't think that nightclubs will be banned permanently from ever existing again in Ireland then?

You just think there isn't going to be anyone with the idea of setting up a new business and figuring out how to make it survive temporary shutdowns if needed? Or scrap that business and buy it's assets back again after the debts get written off and just do the same thing again.

[Deleted User]

robinph wrote: »

So that business declares bankruptcy, the building get sold off, someone else buys it and converts it into a....????

Nightclub might be a good idea for a new business as there is a young population craving some late night entertainment venues to visit as they haven't been able to for a year and a half.

Or do you think the young population of Ireland will all be tucked up in bed by 9pm with a mug of horlicks because the idea of other things to do doesn't interest them anymore?

And the threat of being ordered to close by the Government being ever-present? That wouldn't be a problem?

I don't doubt that there will be a demand for clubbing among young people.

robinph

Gortanna wrote: »

I mean I don't think there will be any left to reopen. They've been closed for close to two years.

So that business declares bankruptcy, the building get sold off, someone else buys it and converts it into a....????

Nightclub might be a good idea for a new business as there is a young population craving some late night entertainment venues to visit as they haven't been able to for a year and a half.

Or do you think the young population of Ireland will all be tucked up in bed by 9pm with a mug of horlicks because the idea of other things to do doesn't interest them anymore?

[Deleted User]

robinph wrote: »

So will nightclubs be banned then, or do you just think that because the current ones might all go bust nobody will think of opening a new nightclub in order to fullful that demand for late night entertainment from people?

If nightclubs are banned will no other nighttime econmic activites emerge in their place? The masks are aparently going to be required, but only becuase the population wants them to be told they have to wear them. Will the population not have any say in their nighttime entertaiment?

Why would anyone take the chance on opening a nightclub in Ireland? The threat of being ordered to close by the Government would be ever-present.

robinph

EyesClosed wrote: »

Also this is just in Ireland. Irish people won't ever have nightclubs again and will forever wear masks... Just in Ireland.

Good time too setup some nightclubs along the border.

Unless the population of NI also decides that their nightclubs must remain closed as well because they are just not into that anymore, wonder if they will request mask laws to remain in place too?

[Deleted User]

EyesClosed wrote: »

OK so nightclubs will never reopen? But just in Ireland?

Why with the rest of those measure? And why only in Ireland which you have also stated.

I mean I don't think there will be any left to reopen. They've been closed for close to two years.

Because Ireland is unique in the West in having no opposition, in both politics and the media. Proper opposition, I mean, not just a handful of Independent TDs. The CD was put under pressure to scrap masks and is being put under pressure to scrap them on planes and on public transport. In England there has been constant pressure from the Covid Recovery Group and the likes of The Telegraph, the Daily Mail, Talk Radio et al.

But I could be completely wrong. It's just my opinion. I just don't see how the restrictions I mentioned ever go.

EyesClosed

robinph wrote: »

So will nightclubs be banned then, or do you just think that because the current ones might all go bust nobody will think of opening a new nightclub in order to fullful that demand for late night entertainment from people?

If nightclubs are banned will no other nighttime econmic activites emerge in their place? The masks are aparently going to be required, but only becuase the population wants them to be told they have to wear them. Will the population not have any say in their nighttime entertaiment?

Also this is just in Ireland. Irish people won't ever have nightclubs again and will forever wear masks... Just in Ireland.

robinph

Gortanna wrote: »

I believe a lot of restrictions will be permanent. Masks, a degree of social distancing (I don't think here will be any nightclubs left, so that won't really be a problem), the vaccine passport, mandatory quarantine, the PCR test requirement to enter the country. But that's just my opinion.

So will nightclubs be banned then, or do you just think that because the current ones might all go bust nobody will think of opening a new nightclub in order to fullful that demand for late night entertainment from people?

If nightclubs are banned will no other nighttime econmic activites emerge in their place? The masks are aparently going to be required, but only becuase the population wants them to be told they have to wear them. Will the population not have any say in their nighttime entertaiment?

EyesClosed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I believe a lot of restrictions will be permanent. Masks, a degree of social distancing (I don't think here will be any nightclubs left, so that won't really be a problem), the vaccine passport, mandatory quarantine, the PCR test requirement to enter the country. But that's just my opinion.

OK so nightclubs will never reopen? But just in Ireland?

Why with the rest of those measure? And why only in Ireland which you have also stated.

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

First lockdown was to deal with the first wave, it dropped heavily, but then everyone relaxed too much and second wave hit, and so on. Now that we are getting into vaccination territory, the waves are weaker, BUT indeed there are more contagious variants (e.g. Delta, up to 60% more transmissible)

Due to the high level of vaccination I am sure we will hit a point where pretty much everything will return to relative normal (yes some places will still have some masks, measures) But it's still not a certainty, because we don't know if another newer, more virulent strain will emerge, etc.

The world is reacting to the virus, and at the moment, we seem to be finally getting on top of it (thanks to vaccines). Could it go on for years? there's always the possibility but the current consensus is that it will probably be like seasonal flu

Conspiracy theorists are detached from all that reality and live in a fantasy world where all this is planned by nefarious entities, the notion that we aren't in control of everything seems to terrify them so they invent all sorts of stories (lies) to explain events around them. Once they get bored of Covid they'll move onto the next thing (they already seem to have got bored with the "Great Reset")

Not bored with it. It has been postponed several times, so it's difficult to focus on it. But Glenn Beck has done a number of videos on the Great Reset.

[Deleted User]

EyesClosed wrote: »

Right so you don't believe all restrictions will be permanent. You now think just masks will be, and because people like them.
You've moved the goal posts so, instead of as the thread title suggests ALL covid measures being permanent, it's now ONE measure, which MIGHT stay.
So what's the conspiracy?

I believe a lot of restrictions will be permanent. Masks, a degree of social distancing (I don't think here will be any nightclubs left, so that won't really be a problem), the vaccine passport, mandatory quarantine, the PCR test requirement to enter the country. But that's just my opinion.

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Once they get bored of Covid they'll move onto the next thing (they already seem to have got bored with the "Great Reset")

Yea. The whole covid thing really seemed to have scuppered the Great Reset thing.
That was poised to be the next big boogie man for the year. But then covid wouldn't blow over all the Great Reset stuff didn't see any traction.
By the time covid does pass, we'll probably here how the Great Reset folks are planning on the next big event to spring their trap...

Dohnjoe

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Do you think we could have years of lockdowns then, because of new strains emerging?

First lockdown was to deal with the first wave, it dropped heavily, but then everyone relaxed too much and second wave hit, and so on. Now that we are getting into vaccination territory, the waves are weaker, BUT indeed there are more contagious variants (e.g. Delta, up to 60% more transmissible)

Due to the high level of vaccination I am sure we will hit a point where pretty much everything will return to relative normal (yes some places will still have some masks, measures) But it's still not a certainty, because we don't know if another newer, more virulent strain will emerge, etc.

The world is reacting to the virus, and at the moment, we seem to be finally getting on top of it (thanks to vaccines). Could it go on for years? there's always the possibility but the current consensus is that it will probably be like seasonal flu

Conspiracy theorists are detached from all that reality and live in a fantasy world where all this is planned by nefarious entities, the notion that we aren't in control of everything seems to terrify them so they invent all sorts of stories (lies) to explain events around them. Once they get bored of Covid they'll move onto the next thing (they already seem to have got bored with the "Great Reset")

EyesClosed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't believe that. I don't think masks will be scraped because there's no appetite among the public at large for them to go and it's not realistic to believe they'll go. I think this thread is in the wrong forum.

Right so you don't believe all restrictions will be permanent. You now think just masks will be, and because people like them.
You've moved the goal posts so, instead of as the thread title suggests ALL covid measures being permanent, it's now ONE measure, which MIGHT stay.
So what's the conspiracy?

BillyBiggs

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Because the virus hasn't remained static. When cases were dropping, measures could be relaxed, when another wave was hitting, measures increased. It's not complicated, yet we constantly see people on this specific forum struggling with these basic concepts.

Do you think we could have years of lockdowns then, because of new strains emerging?