listermint wrote: » The Tories don't care. The 128 thousand bodies dead in little over 12 months haven't hurt them it seems. 128,000 Familes impacted with the lost of loves ones many with multiple deaths in the same family. None of it matters . Why not go for broke sure who cares ? They've more deaths per day now than the entire EU a grouping with nearly six times it's population. But I'm sure Dolan can throw out some stats that colours these numbers in a different light. It's a mess it continues to be a mess their response was a mess their response continues to be a mess. Johnson's current battle now his new distraction technique is to freedomise the use of masks. Create animosity and violence on the streets . Have mask wearers appear woke and get jeered . Rather than expose the empty food shelfs and the rotting food in the fields. The delays in goods and the drop in choice. People will lap it up .
fash wrote: » In a way this was the original plan "do nothing and let people get infected" - but now with the slight addition of having a large chunk of people vaccinated - but not children or young people and hoping that the vaccine wall holds against any variants that arise. Of note the world pays the price if they miscalculate and allow a new variant to arise as a result of the upcoming infection spike (as Europe is already paying for the UK's failures that led to the existence of alpha and the earlier than necessary spread in Europe of delta)
listermint wrote: » They've more deaths per day now than the entire EU a grouping with nearly six times it's population. But I'm sure Dolan can throw out some stats that colours these numbers in a different light. .
Strazdas wrote: » Johnson to hold a press conference at 5pm later today, lifting virtually all Covid restrictions in Britain on July 19th. He's certainly going for broke : apparently masks and social distancing will no longer be compulsory, indoor venues can operate at full capacity, outdoor music festivals and sports events can go ahead etc.https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/1411799493230669825
[Deleted User] wrote: » On the other hand, it would also result in the UK population having the greatest level of immunity to the virus as the entire population will have either have immunity from having the virus, been vaccinated, been vaccinated and then catching a mind version of COVID or dying from it. Then visitors to the UK could still arrive infected but they will not be able to spread the virus as everyone in the UK will be resistant to it. In Reality, it is an acceptance that the "war on COVID" like the "war on drugs" is unwinnable and it's time to move on, the wall of immunity will eventually snuff it out.
correct horse battery staple wrote: » Come on has it not been scientifically proven by now that natural immunity against Covid is unattainable? Brazil tried that one and wham people being reinfected again and again with new strains.
correct horse battery staple wrote: » Even with vaccinations we now looking at having something like 90% fully vaccinated to be able to breathe, every new variant made this figure higher
correct horse battery staple wrote: » That’s what one of the experts on news talk morning show last week was saying I’ll check Spotify later Btw you are confusing immunity with efficacy, one you don’t get infected the other you still get infected potentially but might not lead hospitalisation Best case scenario Covid mutates into something that doesn’t kill as many like Spanish flu did, but somehow to surprise of scientists Covid keeps mutating into more virulent and deadlier strains that spread easier. This is where UKs policy of creating a breeding ground is so reprehensible. We might never have herd immunity to Covid just like we don’t have immunity to common cold
Aegir wrote: » We probably will never have full immunity. The fact we ha w to give out flu jabs every year is testament to that. We have to go back to normal (whatever that looks like) at some point.
Leroy42 wrote: » And we don't have to go back to normal. Thats not how this works.
Podge_irl wrote: » Its how it worked for every other pandemic in human history eventually. The disease will mutate again. The chances of delta being the last significant variant are almost zero. Also, there is absolutely no reason to suspect it would be harder to produce a booster or new vaccine for the variant. The only problem will be rolling it out again if needed (a not insignificant problem granted). The core argument seems to be that its better to have the spike in summer than winter. There is logic behind it and it is, by all accounts, generally supported in principle by PHE.
Leroy42 wrote: » Eventually being the operative word. The numbers do not suggest that eventually is now. It seems very much to be a political decision, ignoring the risks for political gain.
Leroy42 wrote: » Eventually being the operative word. The numbers do not suggest that eventually is now. It seems very much to be a political decision, ignoring the risks for political gain. They might end up getting away with it, they won their last bet on the vaccine gap between 1st and 2nd and they have got massive political capital out of that. So I can completely understand where Johnson and his government as coming from. Popular now, and deal with any issues later on.
devnull wrote: » You also have to remember the majority of Tory voters would be double jabbed at the point the restrictions are lifted and the people who are not double jabbed are going to be people who are not that likely to vote Tory anyway. They're merely playing to their supporters, most of their supporters who are double jabbed are also the ones that are applying the pressure to remove all restrictions because they have the protection of two jabs whereas others are not so lucky.
Strazdas wrote: » There seems to be a new narrative developing in Britain that the Delta variant is virtually harmless, as fewer people are being hospitalised or dying. But that underestimates just how sick people become with Covid. I've a friend in his mid 40s who contracted Covid, is normally as fit as a fiddle and healthy but ended up being pole axed by it and thought he was going to die - despite not being hospitalised. It seems a very risky / dangerous strategy to downgrade the threat from Delta as Johnson is doing and treat it as if it's just like picking up a cold or the flu.
Aegir wrote: » The numbers will always go up and down, the question is do we keep implementing restrictions every time the number go up and yet the hospital number don’t follow suit? Should we also implement a lockdown every winter to keep the spread of flu under control?
Podge_irl wrote: » There also seems to be a narrative that the level of restrictions across Europe are not completely unprecedented and a massive incursion on people's liberties that needs significant compelling reasons. Stopping people getting quite ill is not sufficient. The mantra and logic initially was the need to stop the health services from being overwhelmed - I can happily get on board with that. But if that is not currently a risk then the balance changes.
Leroy42 wrote: » Are we really back to saying this is akin to the flu?
Aegir wrote: » That ain’t what I said, is it.
Leroy42 wrote: » The issue is that once it gets out of control it is very difficult to deal with it. We saw it in the US, Italy, UK and recently in India. Where they went from congratulating themselves and dealing with it to full on crisis. If, and its a a big if, the rapid pread leads to a further mutation and then the vaccine doesn't work as well then the UK could rapidly find itself overrun in the NHS. By that stage it will be too late to actually stop it and all that can be done is bury the dead and hope for the best. And this isn't the first time. Exiting 1st lockdown we heard the same arguments. Same with the 2nd. Now the vaccinations are the reason why this time everything is fine. And they might very well be right. Its a hell of a gamble. And that is exactly what it is. A gamble. Put everything on Red. When a more sensible, but less popular and harder option, is to maintain controls and look to get even more people vaccinated over the next month or two and then it becomes less of a gamble.
Strazdas wrote: » I can understand some of the easing of restrictions by Johnson but lifting the ban on indoor mask wearing and on public transport for example seems bonkers - all the indications are that this is an effective measure.
breezy1985 wrote: » Its a stupid decision. Having to wear a mask on transport or doing shopping really isnt that hard a thing to do and there is no reason to get rid of it this soon
Leroy42 wrote: » The issue is that once it gets out of control it is very difficult to deal with it. We saw it in the US, Italy, UK and recently in India. Where they went from congratulating themselves and dealing with it to full on crisis. If, and its a a big if, the rapid pread leads to a further mutation and then the vaccine doesn't work as well then the UK could rapidly find itself overrun in the NHS.
Leroy42 wrote: » When a more sensible, but less popular and harder option, is to maintain controls and look to get even more people vaccinated over the next month or two and then it becomes less of a gamble.
Leroy42 wrote: » So why are you bring the flu into it? What was the purpose of that line in your post?
Strazdas wrote: » It all seems to be based on the 'Covid is as good as over' and 'Delta variant is practically harmless' thing that the Tories and the Brexit press are pushing. If nobody has to wear a mask, it will show to Johnson's supporters that the pandemic is at an end and everything is back to normal.
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