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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

brianhere

All social/population control measures introduced by the state security apparatus as a result of this health scare will be, and have always intended to be, permanent in my view. Here are a few reasons why:
a) Because they already have shown that they are stringing people along. The publicans, for example, have been assured every couple of weeks for the whole summer that they will be allowed to reopen, but the government had no intention of allowing this. First it was to stop the spread of the disease altogether, then it was 'flattening the curve' and now it is in response to an increase in cases which they know perfectly well had to follow an increase in testing. You don't want to be the donkey chasing the carrot here!

b) Because they have invested so much money and time in changing the whole apparatus of society, in schools for example, and other places. Clearly these changes were not implemented in order to disappear in only a few weeks, they show the planning and expense of permanent measures.

c) Because the state has a record of never releasing back to the population rights that they seized during some panic. A few examples:
i) During the hype about TB in the 1950s the state introduced a voluntary scheme to control the disease in cattle. It involved those who had tested negative for the disease to be given a special tag and the farmer a 'herd number'. This voluntary scheme then evolved into the state controlling all aspects of agricultural activity by only allowing any such activity - even keeping a few hens - with the permission of the state, via compulsory herd numbers.
ii) Similar to this current panic, in the 1970s the state amended earlier WWII legislation to enable it to abolish jury trials. This was a great shock to the legal profession - even to the then President - and affront to the time honoured legal practices in Ireland but it was rushed through on the basis of sunset clauses whereby it would have to be renewed every year, and hence was temporary. Of course it is still with us long after the troubles have ended.
iii) After 9/11 and some hyped episodes like 'underwear bombers', this state and all around the world introduced time consuming and very intrusive security procedures particularly at airports. This of course is still with us long after the scare has died down.

d) This last point I am sure some of you will not get, but I will make it anyway. These measures are being rolled out precisely because they have huge social and population control advantages for the state, hence they are only piggy backing on the virus to do what they have all along planned to do, and hence have no intention of ever releasing you in the future from their newly introduced grip.

So look if you want to get your life back you should join the demonstrations next Saturday at 2.00pm at the Customs House and the Dáil in Dublin. You will not get released from this vice otherwise, they will compel you to harm your own health via vaccines and masks (of course it harms your health by restricting your breathing, and harming your health does not help somebody else), and otherwise we will descend further into this nightmare of Communist style spying on neighbours and bullying people in the name of social conformity.

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shocksy

PintOfView wrote: »

When you say "long term side effects will show up from these junk vaccines"
how do you actually know this?

Have long term side effects shown up from the vaccines you had as a baby?

Do you think it's better to have the full blown covid virus instead (with a much higher risk of clots, for example)?
URL="https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/irish-scientists-make-discovery-on-dangerous-covid-clotting-1.4593374"]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/irish-scientists-make-discovery-on-dangerous-covid-clotting-1.4593374[/URL

You can't compare those vaccines to one that hasn't been tried and tested. 9 months is a pathetic trial time. The pandemic would eventually burn itself out without these vaccines just like the Spanish flu did.

That's debatable if covid causes clots, these "studies" only came to light when AZ was causing clots so they came out with the BS that covid also causes clots and much worse than the vaccine does. Such Hor$e$hit haha. People are easily fooled. My god gullible is an understatement.

shocksy

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nice rant, pity you're not the first to have posted all of those buzz words before. care to address the title of the thread? What measures are going to be permanent?

And just like that, the same question reply haha it's like a competition who can copy and paste that question the most.

No one knows for certainty, but there will definitely be permanent measures. Booster vaccines will be one of them, if you don't get your booster vaccine like good boys and girls you won't be allowed to travel. More data control and medical sharing into the hands of authorities that shouldn't have it. Masks will remain. Lockdowns will be a regular thing. Pubs and nightclubs will forever be forced to open and close (which is a good thing anyway) only good thing to come from this pandemic. There's already talks of only vaccinated people can do this and that. They're also using the pandemic to divide the people. The answer to your question is having permanently more control over the sheep and they have already obliged. Eventually the vaccines will do their job of either depopulatung countries or some other hidden agenda which is yet to be revealed.

PintOfView

shocksy wrote: »

Just because you were told they're "safe" by the authorities that want the sheep to believe they're safe doesn't mean that they are. Long term side effects will eventually show up from these junk vaccines. I can't believe millions of people are pumping junk into their arms from pharmaceuticals who only care about massive profit. I suggest people check out the history of these companies and their criminal pasts. I for one certainly wouldn't be trusting anything they produced in a hurry especially as they knew it was a gold mine and would make them billions in profit. Of course the "medical authorities" were going to approve these "miracle vaccines" so people could be herded up into believing everything will be all well and good if you take them and then promise them that life will return to normal again. It worked, the sheeped herded up in their millions to take this unknown junk into their arm. The control has started and will continue.

When you say "long term side effects will show up from these junk vaccines"
how do you actually know this?

Have long term side effects shown up from the vaccines you had as a baby?

Do you think it's better to have the full blown covid virus instead (with a much higher risk of clots, for example)?
URL="https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/irish-scientists-make-discovery-on-dangerous-covid-clotting-1.4593374"]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/irish-scientists-make-discovery-on-dangerous-covid-clotting-1.4593374[/URL

Timberrrrrrrr

shocksy wrote: »

Just because you were told they're "safe" by the authorities that want the sheep to believe they're safe doesn't mean that they are. Long term side effects will eventually show up from these junk vaccines. I can't believe millions of people are pumping junk into their arms from pharmaceuticals who only care about massive profit. I suggest people check out the history of these companies and their criminal pasts. I for one certainly wouldn't be trusting anything they produced in a hurry especially as they knew it was a gold mine and would make them billions in profit. Of course the "medical authorities" were going to approve these "miracle vaccines" so people could be herded up into believing everything will be all well and good if you take them and then promise them that life will return to normal again. It worked, just as planned and the sheep all herded up in their millions to take this unknown junk into their arm. The control has started and will continue. It didn't take much in the end, all it took was a promise that you'll be "safe' after you take this "miracle" trial gene altering vaccine.

Nice rant, pity you're not the first to have posted all of those buzz words before. care to address the title of the thread? What measures are going to be permanent?

shocksy

rtron wrote: »

It's the clinical trials to find out how long the vaccine last and long term side effects that is ongoing.
But the vaccine that have passed approval are safe.

In relation to Pfizer

Just because you were told they're "safe" by the authorities that want the sheep to believe they're safe doesn't mean that they are. Long term side effects will eventually show up from these junk vaccines. I can't believe millions of people are pumping junk into their arms from pharmaceuticals who only care about massive profit. I suggest people check out the history of these companies and their criminal pasts. I for one certainly wouldn't be trusting anything they produced in a hurry especially as they knew it was a gold mine and would make them billions in profit. Of course the "medical authorities" were going to approve these "miracle vaccines" so people could be herded up into believing everything will be all well and good if you take them and then promise them that life will return to normal again. It worked, just as planned and the sheep all herded up in their millions to take this unknown junk into their arm. The control has started and will continue. It didn't take much in the end, all it took was a promise that you'll be "safe' after you take this "miracle" trial gene altering vaccine.

Dohnjoe

Grofus wrote: »

My whole point about the vaccines is that they are still in Phase 3 trials.

Most vaccines have concluded phase 3 trials (technically some phase 3 are continuing for years, but preliminary results have been accepted)

e.g.
https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2020/Pfizer-and-BioNTech-Conclude-Phase-3-Study-of-COVID-19-Vaccine-Candidate-Meeting-All-Primary-Efficacy-Endpoints/default.aspx

As for Bill Gates, his polio vaccine has already paralysed kids under 5 in Africa. A fact even the WHO acknowledge to be around 50,000 cases.
But fear not, Bill has your back!

Distorted conspiracy nonsense

https://www.indiatoday.in/fact-check/story/conspiracy-theory-bill-gates-backed-polio-vaccine-disabled-kids-1707666-2020-08-04

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-gates-list-idUSL1N2LO230

rtron

Grofus wrote: »

Where have you read Phase 3 trials have ended, what is your source? I can assure you they haven't and will not end mid 2023.
The guardian was my source for the African polio endemic

It's the clinical trials to find out how long the vaccine last and long term side effects that is ongoing.
But the vaccine that have passed approval are safe.

In relation to Pfizer

astrofool

PintOfView wrote: »

Here is the Guardian article [https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus]

The other poster either hasn't read it properly, or hasn't understood it!

Well, they either don't understand what they're reading or have another source from the Guardian which they haven't posted yet.

I'm betting on the former.

PintOfView

astrofool wrote: »

Post the guardian source stating that the Polio vaccine caused 50,000 children to be paralysed.

Here is the Guardian article [https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus]

The other poster either hasn't read it properly, or hasn't understood it!

PintOfView

HerrKapitan wrote: »

Yes UK are returning to normal very soon. Anything that gives a sense of freedom to be outlawed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/travel/amp/2021/07/01/campervanners-could-soon-be-criminalised-for-wild-camping-in-the-uk

So is it your position that all laws infringe on our freedom, and are thus bad?

astrofool

Grofus wrote: »

Where have you read Phase 3 trials have ended, what is your source? I can assure you they haven't and will not end mid 2023.
The guardian was my source for the African polio endemic

Post the guardian source stating that the Polio vaccine caused 50,000 children to be paralysed.

I don't believe this needs to be done, but here is the official announcement from Pfizer that phase 3 studies have been concluded:
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

Please show a source that phase 3 of Pfizer is still ongoing (we can tackle the vaccines one by one as you show your sources).

Grofus wrote: »

From Reuters

“COVID-19 vaccine trials are ongoing. What does that mean for those taking the vaccine?”, one post shared on Facebook asks.

Post the source and let us dissect it, it undoubtedly does not mean what you think it does.

The question is whether you don't understand or whether you're trying to be purposefully deceitful.

Amadan Dubh

HerrKapitan wrote: »

Yes UK are returning to normal very soon. Anything that gives a sense of freedom to be outlawed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/travel/amp/2021/07/01/campervanners-could-soon-be-criminalised-for-wild-camping-in-the-uk

To be fair, I think the law will only be used to prevent people from breaking existing laws which presumably are deemed inadequate eg fishing or lighting a fire without a licence.

HerrKapitan

Yes UK are returning to normal very soon. Anything that gives a sense of freedom to be outlawed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/travel/amp/2021/07/01/campervanners-could-soon-be-criminalised-for-wild-camping-in-the-uk

Grofus

From Reuters

“COVID-19 vaccine trials are ongoing. What does that mean for those taking the vaccine?”, one post shared on Facebook asks.

The post correctly notes that the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine has been given an “estimated study completion date” of Jan. 31, 2023 (here). For the COVID-19 vaccine created by Moderna, studies are expected to end on Oct. 27, 2022

The Moderna trial end seems to have been brought forward, but my point t is still valid

robinph

Grofus wrote: »

As for Bill Gates...

Exactly which of the various covid vaccines is it that Bill Gates is using in order to bring about the depopulation of the planet?

If he's only using one of them then it's a pretty rubbish plan. If he's somehow managed to get all of them as created in multiple countries to be working as depopulation vaccines then that is impressive, but how did he simultaneously managed to get Oxford University, BionTech in Germany, Moderna, Jansen, the Russian vaccine and the Chinese vaccine developers all in on the plan at the same time and without anyone leaking out the details of the plan?

Grofus

astrofool wrote: »

The Phase 3 trials are long over, the vaccines were deemed safe and effective and have been approved everywhere by multiple agencies, in Europe they were approved under conditional marketing approval where the vaccine manufacturer accepts liability.

What is continuing and will continue for a long time and continues for all medicines, is research into how effective they are, how long the immunity lasts, how they handle variants, this is why we update the yearly flu vaccine, it's why as time goes on, better medicine and dosing formulation is understood for all medicines and guidelines updated.

This is part of science and part of the feedback loop that is intrinsically part of the process.

I would ask for sources on the polio vaccine that has paralysed 50,000 children under 5. If this is something part sponsored by the Gates foundation, you will be laughed out of the thread.

edit: you updated 500,000 to 50,000

Where have you read Phase 3 trials have ended, what is your source? I can assure you they haven't and will not end mid 2023.
The guardian was my source for the African polio endemic

PintOfView

buzzerxx wrote: »

The reason they keep giving us short time frames of lockdowns
is because if they told you they're planning to lock you down for
a year and a half at least, you'd riot. You wouldn't comply. You'd plan.
You'd organize. You'd fight it. You'd overthrow them.
Don't be a boiling frog.

So you don't believe there is a real virus at all, that's calling the shots, do you?

buzzerxx

The reason they keep giving us short time frames of lockdowns
is because if they told you they're planning to lock you down for
a year and a half at least, you'd riot. You wouldn't comply. You'd plan.
You'd organize. You'd fight it. You'd overthrow them.
Don't be a boiling frog.

PintOfView

Grofus wrote: »

My whole point t about the vaccines is that they are still in Phase 3 trials. A fact you seem to want to deny. Until they have COMPLETED phase 3 trials they considered
Experimental.
As for Bill Gates, his polio vaccine has already paralysed kids under 5 in Africa. A fact even the WHO acknowledge to be around 50,000 cases.
But fear not, Bill has your back!

Have you actually read up about the outbreak of vaccine derived polio in localised parts of Africa?
Do you think you are giving a fair account of what happened?
or do you even understand what happened?

Do you know that 'wild' polio has been eradicated from Africa, thanks to the vaccine?

And why on earch would Gates want to give children polio?

It sounds like you're content to help propagate falsehoods, and fake news, without understanding it for yourself!!

astrofool

Grofus wrote: »

My whole point t about the vaccines is that they are still in Phase 3 trials. A fact you seem to want to deny. Until they have COMPLETED phase 3 trials they considered
Experimental.
As for Bill Gates, his polio vaccine has already paralysed kids under 5 in India. A fact even the WHO acknowledge to be around 500,000 cases.
But fear not, Bill has your back!

The Phase 3 trials are long over, the vaccines were deemed safe and effective and have been approved everywhere by multiple agencies, in Europe they were approved under conditional marketing approval where the vaccine manufacturer accepts liability.

What is continuing and will continue for a long time and continues for all medicines, is research into how effective they are, how long the immunity lasts, how they handle variants, this is why we update the yearly flu vaccine, it's why as time goes on, better medicine and dosing formulation is understood for all medicines and guidelines updated.

This is part of science and part of the feedback loop that is intrinsically part of the process.

I would ask for sources on the polio vaccine that has paralysed 50,000 children under 5. If this is something part sponsored by the Gates foundation, you will be laughed out of the thread.

edit: you updated 500,000 to 50,000

[Deleted User]

Grofus wrote: »

I agree with that but time will tell

Yes. I think a foot in both camps, but that I am increasingly moving towards caution and concern over variants and case numbers. I just don't see an end point if the concern is variants because there will always be variants.

Grofus

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The FDA gave the vaccines the greenlight (like many global regulators). The years long approval method is fine for normal approvals, but not exactly suitable for an urgent pandemic, ergo they used emergency measures, which is why those measures exist in the first place.

Thanks for the sincere advice, it's a bit of a toss-up but I'll take my medical information from experts and global regulators, not new posters on conspiracy forums who think Bill Gates is trying to kill people.

My whole point about the vaccines is that they are still in Phase 3 trials. A fact you seem to want to deny. Until they have COMPLETED phase 3 trials they're considered
Experimental.
As for Bill Gates, his polio vaccine has already paralysed kids under 5 in Africa. A fact even the WHO acknowledge to be around 50,000 cases.
But fear not, Bill has your back!

[Deleted User]

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you complain when i mention the UK then in the next breath you bring up Peru? :pac:

I didn't complain. I just pointed out that brianhere was referring to Ireland.

And I mentioned Peru because I was asked whether I thought there were other countries I was doubtful about.

Dohnjoe

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you complain when i mention the UK then in the next breath you bring up Peru? :pac:

When the pandemic has largely gone, all we are going to be left with is a bunch of conspiracy theorists going around wearing masks to prove they were "right all along". :pac:

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't know whether they will be permanent in Ireland. I just see no evidence to suggest hat they will be scrapped. No statement, no pressure to scrap them.

And there are other countries I would say the same thing about. I wonder will they go in Peru, for example. Double masks are now mandatory there: https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/peru-begins-requiring-double-masks

What do you believe will happen after the population has been vaccinated? Are you confident that normal life will resume? Because there will continue to be cases.

So you complain when i mention the UK then in the next breath you bring up Peru? :pac:

Dohnjoe

Grofus wrote: »

OK, so we are ignoring the obvious difference between approved and emergency licence.
You've been sold a lie and the consequences 'could' be life changing for You and others. I sincerely hope it proves not to be the case

The FDA gave the vaccines the greenlight (like many global regulators). The years long approval method is fine for normal approvals, but not exactly suitable for an urgent pandemic, ergo they used emergency measures, which is why those measures exist in the first place.

Thanks for the sincere advice, it's a bit of a toss-up but I'll take my medical information from experts and global regulators, not new posters on conspiracy forums who think Bill Gates is trying to kill people.

[Deleted User]

PintOfView wrote: »

So do you think that it's just in Ireland that masks will be permanent now,
and the UK have escaped the clutches of the WEF, etc?

And were all those UK people you quoted before wrong after all?

I don't know whether they will be permanent in Ireland. I just see no evidence to suggest hat they will be scrapped. No statement, no pressure to scrap them.

And there are other countries I would say the same thing about. I wonder will they go in Peru, for example. Double masks are now mandatory there: https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/peru-begins-requiring-double-masks

What do you believe will happen after the population has been vaccinated? Are you confident that normal life will resume? Because there will continue to be cases.

Grofus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I haven't invented anything. I believe masks to be popular.

I think the problem is that this thread, or the argument being put forward, i.e. that certain (I wouldn't necessarily say all) measures will continue, could be discussed and debated in this forum and in the Covid forum. I see where brianhere is coming from, but I increasingly find myself moving towards the safety at all costs society I believe has emerged. I can't see the high level of caution ever subsiding. There's hardly anyone in hospital because of covid relative to the size of the population and still there are huge restrictions on practically every aspect of people's lives. Even if there were no people in hospital and no cases, there would still be the concern over variants. There will always be variants, so I just don't see that caution going away. I guess my fundamental argument is that I don't see an end point. And I think that could be discussed in the covid thread. The problem is that people instantly call 'conspiracy theory' and that's the end of the thread.

I agree with that but time will tell

[Deleted User]

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Maybe read the article I linked?

I read the article, and it looks as though they will be optional after the 19th, but I just think it would be prudent to wait until it's actually announced. I have read articles about individual ministers saying masks will be optional, but then further down in the article one reads that no decisions have been made.

We'll know this week I imagine. I for one hope they do become optional.

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You have invented a narrative in this thread that the government will make us wear masks forever because they are "popular". Just to fit the title of the thread. Whereas the original poster is stating we will have these measures forever because Covid is really just a ruse to usher in global Communism. The Covid invent-your-own-adventure thread

When the vast majority of Irish people aren't wearing masks anymore, what will you do then, admit you were wrong or?

I haven't invented anything. I believe masks to be popular.

I think the problem is that this thread, or the argument being put forward, i.e. that certain (I wouldn't necessarily say all) measures will continue, could be discussed and debated in this forum and in the Covid forum. I see where brianhere is coming from, but I increasingly find myself moving towards the safety at all costs society I believe has emerged. I can't see the high level of caution ever subsiding. There's hardly anyone in hospital because of covid relative to the size of the population and still there are huge restrictions on practically every aspect of people's lives. Even if there were no people in hospital and no cases, there would still be the concern over variants. There will always be variants, so I just don't see that caution going away. I guess my fundamental argument is that I don't see an end point. And I think that could be discussed in the covid thread. The problem is that people instantly call 'conspiracy theory' and that's the end of the thread.