All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Gortanna wrote: »

What's the evidence that lockdowns save lives, or saved lives?

A Stanford study concluded that there was “no clear, significant beneficial effect of (more restrictive measures) on case growth in any country.”

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/padailypost.com/2021/01/18/stanford-study-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit/amp/

If lockdowns don't work how do you explain the difference between Ireland and the US?

How do you explain that 3,500 people died in Ireland in April 2020,
when every other April previously had 2,500 deaths, or less
so 1,000 deaths above normal in April 2020?

We then locked down, brought the covid case numbers right down, and
lo and behold deaths returned to normal.

Are you saying that if we hadn't bothered with the lockdown deaths would
have come back down to normal anyway, in all months up to December?

PintOfView wrote: »

I didn't say they did,
I was responding to BillyBiggs who said the government tricked people into believing that

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. I continue to maintain that there is no evidence to suggest that mask wearing will be scrapped in Ireland as well as social distancing (at least fully).

No use pointing to other countries who are lifting, or have lifted, restrictions. Ireland is unique in the world, or at least in the West, for having no opposition and a non-functioning Fourth Estate. England, on the other hand, has a lot of opposition. As has the US. The CDC was put under immense pressure to scrap masks, and is under pressure to scrap them on planes and on public transport at the moment. A group of distinguished scientists wrote to Boris Johnson last month calling for the removal of all restrictions. Opposition is key, in my opinion.

PintOfView wrote: »

What would posting the Irish mortality rates show?
If they weren't much higher than normal what would that mean?

If we hadn't locked down, and then had no increase in mortality, that would have proved something!
However we did lock down, and thereby saved a lot of people.
Does that not make sense.

Are you claiming that if Ireland hadn't locked down we wouldn't have had any more people dying?
Are you saying that the virus that killed a half a million Americans wouldn't have bothered with Ireland?

Looks like there's a big hole in your argument, unless you can explain it?

What's the evidence that lockdowns save lives, or saved lives?

A Stanford study concluded that there was “no clear, significant beneficial effect of (more restrictive measures) on case growth in any country.”

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/padailypost.com/2021/01/18/stanford-study-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit/amp/

Gortanna wrote: »

When did the Government say that?

I didn't say they did,
I was responding to BillyBiggs who said the government tricked people into believing that

Grofus wrote: »

Sod this, I tried posting a link to knoema , com showing Irish mortality rates for last 12 years Site denied it.
Anyway it showed an increase of 1 death per 10,000 people
Like I said, what pandemic, what emergency and why are perfectly healthy people being given unproven 'vaccines'
WHY???
How many flu deaths in Ireland last year, none is the answer. Not one.

What would posting the Irish mortality rates show?
If they weren't much higher than normal what would that mean?

If we hadn't locked down, and then had no increase in mortality, that would have proved something!
However we did lock down, and thereby saved a lot of people.
Does that not make sense.

Are you claiming that if Ireland hadn't locked down we wouldn't have had any more people dying?
Are you saying that the virus that killed a half a million Americans wouldn't have bothered with Ireland?

Looks like there's a big hole in your argument, unless you can explain it?

PintOfView wrote: »

How is it a conspiracy if the government say that if everyone gets vaccinated we can resume normal life?

Everyone isn't fully vaccinated yet, so we can't resume 100% normality just yet.
Is your understanding different?

As regards getting the 18-25 year olds vaccinated, are they not part of 'everyone',
and can they not carry the virus?

When did the Government say that?

Grofus wrote: »

This is an Irish site so I made a reasonable assumption you were in Ireland

So you think restrictions will only be permanent in Ireland while the rest of the world goes back to normal?

BillyBiggs wrote: »

One conspiracy that I would believe in is that the Irish government tricked people into thinking that if a large percentage of the population got the vaccine, they could freely avail of pubs and restaurants this summer, without restrictions. The government were happy to sell that lie till last week. Now the emphasis seems to be on getting the younger people, say 18- 25 year olds to get the vaccine, in the hope that they could go “clubbing” in the next six months.

How is it a conspiracy if the government say that if everyone gets vaccinated we can resume normal life?

Everyone isn't fully vaccinated yet, so we can't resume 100% normality just yet.
Is your understanding different?

As regards getting the 18-25 year olds vaccinated, are they not part of 'everyone',
and can they not carry the virus?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No, I live in the UK, restrictions are easing, I can go for a meal, I can go to the pub and in a couple of weeks time I won't need to wear a mask indoors and social distancing will be a thing of the past.

You're claiming restrictions are permanent, you make this claim even though there is proof that you are wrong.

This is an Irish site so I made a reasonable assumption you were in Ireland

Grofus wrote: »

Just look at the data then we can debate it.
Let me know when you have seen it

Well in general the lifting of our restrictions are six weeks behind the UK... Personally I will wear a mask until year's end and might even do that during flu season just cause it's handy. But so far, it's not looking like any restrictions are forever...

Grofus wrote: »

Just look at the data then we can debate it.
Let me know when you have seen it

No, I live in the UK, restrictions are easing, I can go for a meal, I can go to the pub and in a couple of weeks time I won't need to wear a mask indoors and social distancing will be a thing of the past.

You're claiming restrictions are permanent, you make this claim even though there is proof that you are wrong.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you claiming that restrictions will only be permanent in Ireland? Does the easing of restrictions in the UK not show proof that they indeed are not permanent and will indeed be eased in Ireland too?

Just look at the data then we can debate it.
Let me know when you have seen it

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Are we living in the U.K.?

Are you claiming that restrictions will only be permanent in Ireland? Does the easing of restrictions in the UK not show proof that they indeed are not permanent and will indeed be eased in Ireland too?

The Nal wrote: »

The FDA have approved Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.

What has this to do with restrictions being permenant?

No they haven't, you clearly didn't bother to read the data

The Nal

Grofus wrote: »

I did, was belittled, told I was wrong.
Now, even when I spoon feed the data proof you demand, its still not good enough.
Do you want the proof or not.

You are wrong if believe the vaccines for Covid 19 have been approved for use.
The data is on New York Times website. Take or leave it
There, in my own words, clear enough

The FDA have approved Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.

What has this to do with restrictions being permenant?

The Nal wrote: »

Can you not explain in your own words?

I did, was belittled, told I was wrong.
Now, even when I spoon feed the data proof you demand, its still not good enough.
Do you want the proof or not.

You are wrong if believe the vaccines for Covid 19 have been approved for use.
The data is on New York Times website. Take or leave it
There, in my own words, clear enough

BillyBiggs

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It think ultimately they are playing games in that if they did opened up earlier, the rush for the vaccine would have fell off. It think younger people are rushing to get it because they feel it's the path to freedom, as opposed to feeling safe from Covid. And is say that for anyone healthy under the age of 40.

If all restrictions were lifted in just say early June, a lot of people would have just put getting the vaccine on the To-Do list and wouldn't have got around to it.

Very true. A lot of people are being manipulated into getting the vaccine, whatever way you look at it.

The Nal

Grofus wrote: »

OK, here we are, perhaps you'll accept this, updated 1 July

Nytimes . Com / interactive /2020 / science / coronavirus - vaccine - tracker . Html

Remove the spaces to make it work, this site will not allow me post any links or graphs and enjoy

Can you not explain in your own words?

BillyBiggs

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Reports in the UK indicating masks and social distancing will no longer be mandatory in most situations from July 19th (obviously dependent on cases)

Any of the posters claiming measures are permanent have any comment on that?

Are we living in the U.K.?

OK, here we are, perhaps you'll accept this, updated 1 July

Nytimes . Com / interactive /2020 / science / coronavirus - vaccine - tracker . Html

Remove the spaces to make it work, this site will not allow me post any links or graphs and enjoy

The Nal

Grofus wrote: »

Anyway, I need new conspiracy theories because all my old ones came true

Which ones?

Richard Hillman

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1411374790481428487?s=19

Click into and go to its likes. It has 370 odd likes right now. Scroll through the people who liked it, pick a random one. I bet it is a bot account.

Ways spot bot accounts would be they never tweet anything of substance, just retweets (usually government, NGO or RTE posts). And if they are tweeting things, there's no cohesion in the tweets. "People" from absolutely random countries, India, Switzerland, one even from Africa whos last post was 2 years ago about the Indian Premier League cricket :pac:

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

They're gonna pick up on most situations and get annoyed that certain niche scenarios like being in hospitals etc will require them.

If anyone anywhere is wearing a mask, or an individual shop requires them - they will point to that as part of the master plan.

The trick is to keep the conspiracy as vague as possible so it can be constantly modified. Those ones give the most mileage.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Reports in the UK indicating masks and social distancing will no longer be mandatory in most situations from July 19th (obviously dependent on cases)

Any of the posters claiming measures are permanent have any comment on that?

They're gonna pick up on most situations and get annoyed that certain niche scenarios like being in hospitals etc will require them.

Dohnjoe

Reports in the UK indicating masks and social distancing will no longer be mandatory in most situations from July 19th (obviously dependent on cases)

Any of the posters claiming measures are permanent have any comment on that?

Dohnjoe

BillyBiggs wrote: »

One conspiracy that I would believe in is that the Irish government tricked people into thinking that if a large percentage of the population got the vaccine, they could freely avail of pubs and restaurants this summer, without restrictions. The government were happy to sell that lie till last week. Now the emphasis seems to be on getting the younger people, say 18- 25 year olds to get the vaccine, in the hope that they could go “clubbing” in the next six months.

Translation: "I can make up a motive in my head so it must be true"

Everything was slated to open up, however the sharp rise in cases from variants has changed that in more than a few countries.

Richard Hillman

BillyBiggs wrote: »

One conspiracy that I would believe in is that the Irish government tricked people into thinking that if a large percentage of the population got the vaccine, they could freely avail of pubs and restaurants this summer, without restrictions. The government were happy to sell that lie till last week. Now the emphasis seems to be on getting the younger people, say 18- 25 year olds to get the vaccine, in the hope that they could go “clubbing” in the next six months.

It think ultimately they are playing games in that if they did opened up earlier, the rush for the vaccine would have fell off. It think younger people are rushing to get it because they feel it's the path to freedom, as opposed to feeling safe from Covid. And is say that for anyone healthy under the age of 40.

If all restrictions were lifted in just say early June, a lot of people would have just put getting the vaccine on the To-Do list and wouldn't have got around to it.

BillyBiggs wrote: »

One conspiracy that I would believe in is that the Irish government tricked people into thinking that if a large percentage of the population got the vaccine, they could freely avail of pubs and restaurants this summer, without restrictions. The government were happy to sell that lie till last week. Now the emphasis seems to be on getting the younger people, say 18- 25 year olds to get the vaccine, in the hope that they could go “clubbing” in the next six months.

Erm outdoor summer is primarily what was pushed. I've had no problems going for drinks or dining lately. Ya there's uncertainty about indoor dining etc but I've got relative freedom to dine or go to pub.

BillyBiggs

One conspiracy that I would believe in is that the Irish government tricked people into thinking that if a large percentage of the population got the vaccine, they could freely avail of pubs and restaurants this summer, without restrictions. The government were happy to sell that lie till last week. Now the emphasis seems to be on getting the younger people, say 18- 25 year olds to get the vaccine, in the hope that they could go “clubbing” in the next six months.