john123470 wrote: » Exactly, it is no more than a possible scenario. Although, the fact that Sophie "complained to Gardai about drug use in the area" would seem to indicate that she was in fact riled up about her neighbour Unless ie. Alfie and his mates were blowing weed smoke in her windows, it shd not have bothered her
Biker79 wrote: » The ' looking for a party ' angle is compelling. Unknown person(s) arrive at the gate, hearing of a party nearby. STDP is having breakfast, hears them attempting to get in, puts on gear to walk down to gate Is annoyed at person(s) at gate trying to enter her property so heated argument/ fight ensues.. Person(s) at gate are intoxicated so level of violence gets way out of hand. Persons(s) speed off leaving little evidence/ motive. Doesn't explain the blood on the cottage door though.
odyssey06 wrote: » Wouldnt really happen at breakfast time though? More of an the after pubs close to 2am kind of thing?
SoulWriter wrote: » The gate wouldn't stop party goers. They would just climb over the gate. So would anyone else who wanted to access.I think the issue of closing the gate was about horses?
Biker79 wrote: » Not if they were in a car with no idea how far away the house was. They may have been drunkenly fumbling to open the gate, and spotted by Sophie, who then went down to confront them.
MoonUnit75 wrote: » MF says she saw him three times, once from across the road while she was in her shop and twice more as she drove past him. She didn’t stand anywhere near him and saw him briefly on each occasion. If there was no one else standing beside him I think it’s entirely possible a wild guess attempt, which MF admitted it was, could be substantially out.
claims she can now identify a suspect she saw following Ms Toscan du Plantier days before her murder.
That's true, was the gate locked or just closed? I still think Sophie's issue was horses? I doubt a group in a car wouldn't have left some forensic evidence
Biker79 wrote: » IB and JT would have had to have been extremely lucky to have cleared up any DNA and to be confident enough to volunteer a sample. After having pints that night? Doesn't make any sense.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » Who is saying there was, or had to have been, any sort of cleanup at the crime scene? My understanding is the absence of forensic evidence linking Bailey or anyone else to the scene was due to mere chance and the mishandling of the investigation. If the killer didn't have the presence of mind to conceal the body in any way, I highly doubt they were doing any sort of sophisticated crime scene cleanup.
flanna01 wrote: » By her own admission, MF is the only person who has owned up to being in the vicinity of the murder scene, in and around the critical hours in question. She felt the urge to anomalously contact the Guards to state that she had seen a man covering his face around the area of the bridge in the early hours of the night of the murder - Why? What was she doing in the area? The story that herself and an old boyfriend had gone for a walk along the beach on a winters night in December is horsesh*t, complete and utter horsesh*t! The boyfriend who she never identified, could have corroborated her witness account of the man in the long black coat walking down by the bridge.... This is an horrific murder investigation after all. Why did she protect him? According to her statement, she left home to meet 'some friends' at around 10pm. Instead, she had arranged to meet some bloke to rekindle an old romance.... As you do.. They stroll along the beach in the middle of winter on a pitch black night, then drive around the coastal roads of Schull, a one horse town were everybody knows everbody else... Nobody would blink an eye at the local shopkeeper cavorting in the we hours on the beach with a stranger, nor driving around the deserted roads with him afterwards. Baloney! I suggest that MF and her Casanova were heading to a love nest somewhere... Maybe they turned up at Sophie's house unaware that she was in residence again?? Are these the people who were 'using' the house in Sophie's absence? There was something significant in MF need to contact the Guards with information after the murder is discovered. Was she concerned that she / they, might have been seen by somebody in the early hours in the vicinity of that area. Something spooked her to potentially expose her tryst in view of the national media, something she feared more than being exposed as an adulteress. She has admitted that she was in the area of a gruesome murder, yet wouldn't name her passenger, a key witness to her statement?? It has to be because her Romeo was a man of esteem and importance, if she did crack and tell the Guards, they to decided to keep a lid on it. The bottle of expensive wine found thrown in the ditch is relevant. The wine was purchased from an airport, probably duty free?? You cannot buy the wine in West Cork. Hence a passenger coming into the country (a non national). So being logical... How does an expensive bottle of wine end up in the ditch? An admirer flies into Cork with aspirations of rekindling a romance with Sophie. Knowing she is a woman of taste, pulls out all the stops and invests in a bottle of the good stuff, she's bound to comment on such a good selection.. Upon arrival at Sophie's, he meets the closed gate, struggles to open it creating a din, thus alerting Sophie who was having her breakfast... A row ensues, his advances are rejected, all his hard work and careful planning crash and burn... His embarrassment of rejection turns to anger and blinding rage... You know what happens next. Once the terrible deed is done, he speeds away from the scene, winds the window down, and throws the wine into the ditch. The murderer wouldn't steal the wine from Sophie's house after the murder, as that's evidence that ties him to the scene, in my opinion, the wine was brought to the house to impress Sophie. Did Sophie not have a German suitor that committed suicide saying he had done a terrible thing after she was murdered...?? IB is a self centred arrogant pig - He is not a murderer. How they continued to suspect him of the crime is outragious! Alfie Lyons & MF are by far more likely to be in the frame for murder than IB. The speeding blue Fiesta spotted leaving the area should be key to this investigation as well... The area is like the back of the beyonds, only locals should be driving around there, especially at that time of the morning... Yet nobody bothered to chase up this lead... Can't be that many speeding blue Fiesta's running around Ireland with a legitimate reason to be in Schull that night / morning Don't get me started on the missing blood stained gate... Or the missing pages of the jobs book, nor the taped conversation offering the young buck money, drugs and fags for his statement(s) What we have here is clear and simple: A Miscarriage of Justice.
Mackinac wrote: » I agree with you about this. A previous person mentioned the lack of DNA on the block maybe due to the person wearing gloves. I don’t think the gloves mean it was premeditated more that it was cold and winter and you’d be more likely to wear a pair of gloves then.
Mackinac wrote: » Maybe he didn’t throw the block.
sekiro wrote: » How factual is the detail that she complained to Gardai about drugs? I would imagine that in Ireland some of the most violent crimes we see are related to drugs and break ins? In 1996 how serious would it be to be caught in possession of drugs either for personal use or for sale? People seem pretty open with the admission that the place was full of hippies so I would wonder what the extent of the drug trade would be in that area at that time. You'd have to think that a French woman who comes into town for a few days/weeks complains to Gardai about drugs and then flies back to Paris, while people she as maybe implicated would be scrutinized, would be massively unpopular in certain circles? Then she just rolls back into town again when she feels like it. I wonder what distribution, buying, selling, potential prison time and potential repercussions for snitching would be like out there in 1996. Thing is if she was complaining about drugs then, given the way things are laid out over there, it would be more or less a direct accusation towards individuals. Can't imagine that would be something to go unnoticed. Just seems like a massive red flag IF it's true that she had been actively complaining to police about drugs in the area. Overall it seems like there is a bit of a dark and unexamined underbelly in the region at the time.
sekiro wrote: » I feel it's interesting that the one part of the story she has been consistent on was that she was in the car with someone else. Not sure why she wouldn't just leave that detail out. If I have MF's timeline correct she: Informed Gardai as MF that she saw a weird guy in town. Informed Gardai as MF that she saw a guy hitchhiking the morning of 22nd. (same guy?) Called Gardai as Fiona to say she saw a guy down by the bridge at 3am. Got caught out pretending to be Fiona. Saw IB in Spar and then told Gardai that this was the man she had seen at all 3 previous sightings. Took this back many years later and said that while the sightings had been genuine she had be forced by Gardai to say that the mystery man was IB. I wonder if the identity of her passenger was never established because he would either contradict the story of the man by the bridge being IB or it would have some other massive consequence to how this case would go. I'm wondering as well if she picked this passenger up in her car then she would have drove them home in her car so it couldn't be someone from all that far away? It's mind-bending to me that there wasn't any real push by police to identify this man who was driving around in a car with MF on the very night of a murder, in the vicinity of the murder. "A yes, I was out by the scene of the murder on the night of the murder with my friend." OK, so who is this friend, we'll need to speak with them. "No, no, no. I couldn't possibly tell you who that person was, no way, definitely not." It's just a bit strange really that she never just said she was driving alone. Or when she changed the story about the sighting years later just also changed that detail. Very odd.
Deleted User wrote: » It's a good point. Some might argue it's only a bit of weed but there's always supply chains peopled by dangerous characters by the very nature of an underground business. Also possible that they were looking for her neighbours house and just came across her. These guys are generally speaking not the brightest of people.
qwerty13 wrote: » Sekiro does raise a good point. Hasn’t West Cork been a well known spot for smuggling drugs for years. What if Sophie’s complaints were starting to cause problems for ‘importers’. What if AL was a little more than recreationally involved, and had people connected to the trade calling to his house? What if Sophie’s house was used as a ‘safe house’ when she wasn’t around. What if MF and her companion had some low level involvement with the imports, and that’s why they were out that night. What if the Gardai know all too well why Sophie was murdered, and IB is just a deeply unlikeable bystander. Does anyone know if there’s records of Sophie’s complaints about drugs?
Biker79 wrote: » Exactly. A few years ago, some innocent guy in Ballincollig was killed after engaging with criminal elements. Maybe Sophie stepped on the wrong toes?
sekiro wrote: » The main thing we would say against such a theory in this case is "nobody from outside the area would even be able to find that house even if they were looking for it". To be honest I don't really buy into that.
bb12 wrote: » re the blood on the back door. from the crime scene pics it looks like the driveway swung around to the this door and that this was the main door used for the house. there's a pallet blocking access to the path to the front door from the pics...so you'd have to think that anyone calling to the house always called to the back door. her blood being on this door makes me think that she opened it to a knock, maybe stepped outside and got a clobber on the head which would have stunned her...she raises her hands to her bloody head and then tries to get back in the door but is then dragged down the laneway, to try and get out of earshot and/or sight of the neighbours house. her boots being on could literally be any reason..maybe she had a conversation with the person at the door beforehand...maybe they told her something was wrong to get her out of the house...could have said any number of things...like maybe the 3rd house up the road was on fire or something...their car had got stuck in the ditch and they needed a tow out...the horses had broken out into the laneway and needed to be herded back in...anything really... wonder if they ever did any real forensic analysis of anyone being half dragged down the laneway. i don't believe someone would commit such a violent murder way down the laneway and then walk all the way back up the house...they were already risking too much by killing someone on the roadside on a quiet still night...you'd be wanting to get out of there asap once the deed was done
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wb.vanillicon.com/v2/b1891d95e9e926c005ad3f5c153aacc5.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wb.vanillicon.com/v2/bd89cdce15309a6ec2dff928c865017a.svg)
