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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

CorkGunJonny

Anyone know what channel it's on? The jim sheridan documentary about sophie toscan du plantier

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Weddings ahoy

I assume everyone who has the theory that AL did it early in the morning have reached the conclusion that his partner SF is co conspirator, so we are to believe a man who reportedly couldn't knead a loaf of bread bludgeoned a woman 50 times than picked up a huge cement block ,raised it up and dropped it on the victim ??he had IB doing gardening work for him around that time, which would also point to his frailty, how did he get her down to gate? Did he carry her?? Or did he say c'mon down here to gate oh and let me grab that axe you have by back door,
When he went back up to Shirley did he say need to put a wash on love,sorted the gate issue, you light the fire and head off shopping oh and when you get to bottom of lane come screaming back up in case there is anybody around I will phone the guards??
None of it adds up, to me there must have been an iron tight reason why AL was cleared so early in investigation, i doubt he was capable of such exertion,

Polly701

dublin49 wrote: »

how can Jules maintain Baileys innocent if he wasnt in bed with her the night of the murder.She can say she doesnt know what he got up to during those hours but how can she be convinced of his innocence when all accept he was not with her.Your partner who has a propensity for violence against women leaves your bed for the night and a neighbour gets murdered and you are convinced your partner wasnt involved,this really doesnt add up.

They had a second property close by and he regularly went there to write at odd hours. It wasn't unusual for him to get up.

I suppose she thinks he 'seemed normal' at 9 when he brought her coffee. Surely a person who just committed a crime like that would be agitated? Be full of adrenaline? Be different? She knew some scratches were normal for him.. He does a lot of physical work around the house.

The person who did this would surely have been splattered with blood and gotten bruises, etc? If he drove the car it would have had blood in it? She didn't see any 'evidence' like that.. The Italian girl saw 'something' soaking in a bucket - her Netflix piece is quite different to her original statement which I think is very irresponsible of the producers.

I don't know if he did it or not.. I suspect he didn't.

riddles

It would have been nice if the Healy-Rae style detective had a bucket of his incompetence thrown at him to chip away at some of that jaw dropping smugness.

Question : detective does it not keep you awake at night reflecting on the complete comedy capers attempt at processing this investigation.

Detective just how much of the evidence remains and why do you think it’s missing?

Detective have you apologised to the parents for your abject incompetence?

Detective MF really?

Note to self - never get into any trouble in France because they can say any auld boll1x and it’s taken as fact. The friend who suddenly remembered 18 years later talking about a strange poet who I advised her not to meet in private. Didn’t think of it tell then. Another random bloke pops in with his actual statement she named IB before she left.

AdrianG08

New lead from none other than Marie Farrell

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sceptical-gardaireview-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-murder-file-following-new-lead-40610650.html

Must be nothing on telly

dublin49

how can Jules maintain Baileys innocent if he wasnt in bed with her the night of the murder.She can say she doesnt know what he got up to during those hours but how can she be convinced of his innocence when all accept he was not with her.Your partner who has a propensity for violence against women leaves your bed for the night and a local gets murdered and you are convinced your partner wasnt involved,this really doesnt add up.

Polly701

Ultimate Gowlbag wrote: »

The Alfie theory was put to bed earlier the thread for me....actually a lot of theories were,just a lot of rehashing going now!

I don't think it was put to bed though? Someone said he could hardly knead dough in 1995..okay - so he was somewhat frail? He did live in a very rural location though, with a lot of land.

Presumably he did work around the house such as chopping wood or whatever? And I think he lived there until relatively recently.. So able to live independently in this setting for another 20 plus years?

People can go crazy over thinks like shared access to a property - could he have flipped and lost it?! Combined with her 'always complaining', her concerns about drug use in the area and her concerns that someone was using her house when she was not there..

Without tmi.. She was a very petite lady, who would have been hugely taken by surprise.

I would love to see justice done and closure for the family.

fin12

Ultimate Gowlbag wrote: »

She's so terrified that she has kicked him out?

Why would he kill her over been kicked out , if she reported him to the police , he would have nothing to lose and could easily murder her.

[Deleted User]

Sophie was a very beautiful young woman married to a famous film producer, much older than her. He wasn't good looking. But he was a powerful film producer. She is rumoured to have had an affair with another powerful man even older than her husband.
Sophie saw a spray of sea foam on the day before her death and it's said she was so terrified by this that she ran to a neighbours house.

dark crystal

Mam of 4 wrote: »

Yes I would be , but the point I was making was if the Guards seemed to want it to be him (rightly or wrongly) , if Jules had said it was him , there would have been no way they'd have released him , a murderer , from custody, so he'd have had no opportunity to harm Jules.

Also, would you really continue raising your children in a house with someone you even slightly believed was a killer?

In all honesty, she should have kicked him out after the assault in April, but she loved the man and most probably felt a certain misplaced loyalty to him after he was accused of the crime, especially if she felt he was innocent of it.

dublin49

I think every spouse or partner would back their other half until they have concrete proof to their guilt .Jules may have backed him up initially ,not knowing all the subsequent questions that would emerge and Bailey may have been able to manipulate her with threats of being an accessory to the murder.Remember she stayed with him after violent episodes which would suggest he could manipulate her as he should have been sent on his way after the assaults if she was acting rationally.

dark crystal

fin12 wrote: »

Or she’s terrified he will kill her , wouldn’t u be ?

Between making her initial statement in 1996 or 1997 and 2005 when she retracted her statements (which changed frequently from beginning to end), she lived in the same town as Bailey. She wasn't scared enough to move at any stage during that decade. That's a long time to stay in a small town with someone you're in deathly fear of.
She says she was coerced by the police into making false statements implicating Bailey, as was another potential witness, who was bribed to do so. Many of these calls were recorded and released as part of a probe into Garda corruption. There were 36 calls between Farrell and the police included.

https://www.thejournal.ie/garda-recordings-1397232-Apr2014/

Edit: Apologies, I see you were actually talking about Jules Thomas, not Marie Farrell.

Mam of 4

fin12 wrote: »

Or she’s terrified he will kill her , wouldn’t u be ?

Yes I would be , but the point I was making was if the Guards seemed to want it to be him (rightly or wrongly) , if Jules had said it was him , there would have been no way they'd have released him , a murderer , from custody, so he'd have had no opportunity to harm Jules.

Ultimate Gowlbag

fin12 wrote: »

Or she’s terrified he will kill her , wouldn’t u be ?

She's so terrified that she has kicked him out?

Ultimate Gowlbag

EdHoven wrote: »

Without reading the whole thread apart from a mutual alibi with his partner why is he discounted?
It seems coincidental to me the house is up for sale just at the moment a spotlight is shone on events and his death isn't mentioned anywhere but in that one article. Nothing on Rip.ie
From the pics online it looks like the house has been cleared of furniture and thoroughly cleaned.
I wonder did he ever give DNA and if his body was cremated.
Personally I think the husband was behind it but the disappearing neighbour makes me curious.

Someone who knew Alfie posted about him and why it would be a stretch for him to do it....you should try readin the first 50 odd pages if you can get around to it,alot more information there than the last 50.

fin12

Mam of 4 wrote: »

I don't think Jules would have covered up for IB for all these years if she thought he'd done it .
What better way to get rid of your abusive , violent partner than to tell the Guards yes , he did it , he told me x,y,z . They so wanted it to be him that there's no way he'd have been released from custody .
In fairness , even if she thought he did not do it , she still could have told them that and ended up free from him .

Or she’s terrified he will kill her , wouldn’t u be ?

dark crystal

dublin49 wrote: »

moonunit 75 says IB had scratches the morning after that Jules says werent there the previous evening.Is this accepted as I knew abouT the scratches but never heard that Jules had said they were not there the evening before the murder

Yeah, not sure that's right. Bailey said that the weekend of December 21-23rd, he killed turkeys in the shed. I assume this was corroborated by his partner and her children? He says it wasn't a deep cut, just a 'nick' around his hairline. Perhaps Jules didn't even notice it until it was pointed out, although I can't remember for sure when she said she noticed it.

The scratches on his hand were, he says, from cutting a tree on December 22nd, which was corroborated by Saffron Thomas, who accompanied him.

EdHoven

Ultimate Gowlbag wrote: »

The Alfie theory was put to bed earlier the thread for me....actually a lot of theories were,just a lot of rehashing going now!

Without reading the whole thread apart from a mutual alibi with his partner why is he discounted?
It seems coincidental to me the house is up for sale just at the moment a spotlight is shone on events and his death isn't mentioned anywhere but in that one article. Nothing on Rip.ie
From the pics online it looks like the house has been cleared of furniture and thoroughly cleaned.
I wonder did he ever give DNA and if his body was cremated.
Personally I think the husband was behind it but the disappearing neighbour makes me curious.

dublin49

moonunit 75 says IB had scratches the morning after that Jules says werent there the previous evening.Is this accepted as I knew abouT the scratches but never heard that Jules had said they were not there the evening before the murder

[Deleted User]

Mam of 4 wrote: »

I don't think Jules would have covered up for IB for all these years if she thought he'd done it .
What better way to get rid of your abusive , violent partner than to tell the Guards yes , he did it , he told me x,y,z . They so wanted it to be him that there's no way he'd have been released from custody .
In fairness , even if she thought he did not do it , she still could have told them that and ended up free from him .

I agree, is there any chance she drove around looking for him in the morning, went to Alfie's and something kicked off at the gate, unlikely she'd be able to keep to herself this long if she'd witnessed anything I suppose.

MF is very interesting, her whole story is ridiculous and instead of implicating IB it does the total opposite imo. If they hadn't set her up to give a false statement the case against IB would be much stronger imo.
I don't believe she saw anyone on the street or by the bridge, I wouldn't even believe that Sophie was definitely in her shop.

Heat_Wave

Does anyone have a link for Irish viewers to watch this back?

Gussie Scrotch

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I dunno, the attack could have happened suddenly giving the victim no chance to cry out. At least not to a level required to be heard by the neighbours.

Yes, that's possible. But from the number and severity of the cuts and bruises it would suggest a prolonged attack and I'm pretty sure she would have been screaming throughout. The neighbours were less than 100 yards away and it was a clear, cold still morning.

Gussie Scrotch

odyssey06 wrote: »

Can you expand on that - what are the times it is certain Bailey couldn't have done it?

I think it was daylight when Sophie went down to the gate, hence no lights on in the house. Sunrise in west Cork in Late December approx 08.50.

Jules Thomas said IB brought her coffee in bed at 09.00.

If all the above is correct, he couldn't have been there at the time of death.

Mam of 4

I don't think Jules would have covered up for IB for all these years if she thought he'd done it .
What better way to get rid of your abusive , violent partner than to tell the Guards yes , he did it , he told me x,y,z . They so wanted it to be him that there's no way he'd have been released from custody .
In fairness , even if she thought he did not do it , she still could have told them that and ended up free from him .

threeball

The only possible reason I could see IB killing her for are

a. He wanted to get his leg over and she told him to take a hike. This seems an unlikely thing to walk 4km with a hard on and end up killing someone after getting rejected.

Or

B. He was struggling to make ends meet and he needed a story to put him front and centre. This also appears unlikely as he was writing articles for numerous papers and lived a pretty modest life.

Very few murders happen without motive and I dont see another one for IB outside these two.

odyssey06

Gussie Scrotch wrote: »

OK, I'll explain my thinking.
4) If it did happen at that time. Bailey couldn't have done it.

Can you expand on that - what are the times it is certain Bailey couldn't have done it?

EmmetSpiceland

Gussie Scrotch wrote: »

5) Finally, I find it inexplicable that, despite the ferocity and apparent duration of the attack, nobody will admit to hearing anything. If Alfie did do it then this explains that anomaly because If anyone else had done it I would expect either Alfie or Shirley to have heard or seen something.

I dunno, the attack could have happened suddenly giving the victim no chance to cry out. At least not to a level required to be heard by the neighbours.

TheW1zard

After watching the series I cant decide.

john123470

threeball wrote: »

One line in it stood out to me. I didnt hear about the gate being swung at her head to finish her off. If that's true it really re-enforces my suspicions around AB and the possibility of her confronting him about the gate. What more fitting way to complete a fit of rage than to use the implement the row was about. It also fits the timeline of death with the breakfast contents in her stomach and walking down to the gate in early morning rather than in the middle of the night. Is there any connection between MF and AB where she might lie to divert attention from him?

She owed him for weed

threeball

monkeybutter wrote: »

Thanks for posting

That article was of the usual standard of guff you'd expect from the info

He has no idea nothing to add other than his predjudice

One line in it stood out to me. I didnt hear about the gate being swung at her head to finish her off. If that's true it really re-enforces my suspicions around AB and the possibility of her confronting him about the gate. What more fitting way to complete a fit of rage than to use the implement the row was about. It also fits the timeline of death with the breakfast contents in her stomach and walking down to the gate in early morning rather than in the middle of the night. Is there any connection between MF and AB where she might lie to divert attention from him?

Gussie Scrotch

Ultimate Gowlbag wrote: »

The Alfie theory was put to bed earlier the thread for me....actually a lot of theories were,just a lot of rehashing going now!

True, but that's the way these things always go...a bit circular in the end.