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Litter fine

Pinoy adventure

My mother has received a €150 euro litter fine.what happens once she pays this fine ??? Would the council matter if I payed it on her behalf ???

thanks

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[Deleted User]

JustAThought wrote: »

This Happens. Ballymun. Still going on. Newly built council estate with ‘old’ residents. Disgusting.

The councils array of cameras installed ‘don’t work’ and they are too busy worrying about the drug dealing and machine gun toting and hand grenade throwing other residents to do anything about it.

Why haven't you reported it?

Tell me where and when it is happening, and I'll report it if you won't.

Uncle Pierre

Anyway, just to add....

I'm currently with Greenstar for waste collection. Their Collection Calendar schedules for all routes they operate in the country are here: https://www.greenstar.ie/collectioncalendars/

Choose any one of them and you'll find the following line at the bottom left corner of the PDF:
Please ensure to put your bins out from the night before your scheduled collection as collection times may vary.

Meanwhile, here's a passage from the customer service section of the AES waste collection service operated by Bord na Móna (see https://www.aesirl.ie/home/help-centre/collection-and-bin-queries/):
I put my bin out late and the driver has already passed. Is there a driver in my area?
It is important to ensure your bin is left out the night before collection. If you left your bin out late and it was not collected, please fill out the following form

The people who insist that waste shouldn't be out put out until just minutes before collection might like to contact these companies with their concerns.

And finally, a story from 2013 about new rules meaning bins in Dublin were not to be let out before 6 p.m. the day before the collection. Which means that in 2000/01 (the time of my own incident), it was okay to leave them out even before that....never mind at 10 p.m. or 11 p.m., which is the time I used to put the waste out myself:
https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-waste-laws-973518Jul2013/#:~:text=Rubbish%20can't%20be%20put,to%209pm%20in%20residential%20areas.

Uncle Pierre

1874 wrote: »

?? beggars belief, yep, you are not meant to leave stuff out all night, so its only meant to be out from before when they are collecting it.
I guess thats either to stop drunken eejits as you think stealing your rubbish or kicking it around, or as likely to stop the wind picking it up and taking it away.

I had wheelie bins 20+ years ago, Im fairly sure we had even green bins, so either you put out excess stuff or just carted it out there and left it.
I still see people leaving out rubbish beside the bins, extra recycling in bags on the recycle collection day and general rubbish on the black/grey bin day in bags beside the bin, not supposed to be done, invariably if there is a bit of wind it just gets blown all over the place.
Your fine was justified, if the OPs was anything similar, same.
Cant fathom how you still dont get it??

I honestly didn't foresee that my contribution here would kick-start such discussion. I see there's been several posts in response, but I'm replying only to this one as it was the first actual reply.

I obviously don't know what part of the city you lived in 20+ years ago, but there were no wheelie bins where I lived at the time c. 2000/2001. I don't mind telling you it was a ground-floor apartment at Mountjoy Square, with its own entrance that wasn't shared with any other flat or apartment.

The routine for myself and other occupants of other buildings (whether they were residential or commercial) was to leave the waste out in black refuse sacks or similar containers, the night before they were due to be collected. Larger items, which wouldn't fit into black sacks or similar, could be left out separately. For what it's worth, collection generally took place sometime between 5 and 6 a.m. the following morning.

The box in question was approx. 6' x 4' x 2' (it was the packaging for a piece of furniture that I still have). I flattened it down and folded it up as best I could, and left it wedged between a black sack and the railings in front of my door, just as I'd done with several other items in the past, and just as you'd see at several other premises along there every week.

For those suggesting I should have removed the label - perhaps. But I honestly didn't see the need since I was simply leaving the box out in the usual way for proper collection.

Anyway, I can say no more. I didn't think it would become necessary to set out such full circumstances of the incident.

Finally, I trust that all the self-righteous who have criticised and/or lectured me set an alarm themselves for maybe 10 minutes before their waste is to be picked up on collection day, and only then put it out, and probably wait to see the binmen in action too, just to make sure it's picked up properly.

Because anything less than that would mean they're doing the same thing now that I did back then.

Dodge

JustAThought wrote: »

I’d just be wondering how a normal family (yours) can generate enough waste to warrant putting out a half full 240 liter bin EVERY week. I put my black bin out about twice or max 3 times a year. Full. The green bin goes out every month or so.

Sorry I posted now but we put out a bin each week. One week it’s black, the next week it’s green. No one said they were half full

You’ve no need to worry about how we generate that waste…

JustAThought

Dodge wrote: »

It wasn’t one letter. It was quite a bit of rubbish left in bags which included one letter with my address on it. I have no idea why the family that lives there didn’t deliver the letter but the fact they let so much crap outside their front door tells me they weren’t the most considerate types.

The council warden’s argument was that I was dumping all this rubbish in their front yard. They had checked the garden because their next door neighbour had complained about them. I don’t know if others were fined. I just know I was because one back of rubbish had a letter with my name and address on it.

You can do what you like. I was just posting to show that sometimes fines aren’t warranted and thankfully the council agreed with me and rescinded my fine

I’d just be wondering how a normal family (yours) can generate enough waste to warrant putting out a half full 240 liter bin EVERY week. I put my black bin out about twice or max 3 times a year. Full. The green bin goes out every month or so.

JustAThought

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This didn't happen.

This Happens. Ballymun. Still going on. Newly built council estate with ‘old’ residents. Disgusting.

The councils array of cameras installed ‘don’t work’ and they are too busy worrying about the drug dealing and machine gun toting and hand grenade throwing other residents to do anything about it.

1874

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Flytipping happens.

Flytipping organised collectively and routinely by a group of residents doesn't happen.

I can't stop it happening because I don't know where/when it is happening.

If you or the other poster knows where/when it is happening, a couple of phone calls to the local litter warden will get it sorted.

If you don't know where/when it is happening, then it's not happening.

The only part I agree with there is that it might be by residents who know each other, maybe.
As I havent seen anyone organising that or not, I cant say either way.

I have seen people unloading a van load of mattresses and other junk down a backroad, and Ive seen the outcome of that when I didnt witness it firsthand, so I think fly tipping is organised by some people who take advantage of other peoples selfishness.
By not paying for their rubbish to be removed, and paying unlicensed persons to remove it ends up with the stuff in hedges, which I think likely costs even more to remove.

I think we do waste collection wrong here, compared to the UK where it is incorporated into their council tax, we pay property tax and it just goes into the pot, it is not even for waste collection services or any services. While I understand what we pay is significantly less, at least their council type tax appears ringfenced for a specific purpose and is likely to be representative of costs in that area.

In the UK from what I have gathered (information) most people pay taht and have access to some service or shared system. There is less if any incentive to dispose of domestic waste by fly tipping because the services are paid for, and it is even free to drop off waste in collection centres who also have a wider range of services.
If someone doesnt pay they still have to use some service, however challenging it is to follow that up, it is significantly easier to track that and them down and deal with it that way, than trying to locate where they fly tipped their rubbish.

[Deleted User]

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What are you saying didn't happen?

Flytipping organised collectively and routinely by a group of residents doesn't happen.

Galwayguy35

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This didn't happen.

What are you saying didn't happen?

[Deleted User]

1874 wrote: »

Fly tipping happens, but then it doesnt?
Which is it?

how is this sorted with a few phonecalls?

If you are omnipresent to know,why dont you just stop it in the first place?

Flytipping happens.

Flytipping organised collectively and routinely by a group of residents doesn't happen.

I can't stop it happening because I don't know where/when it is happening.

If you or the other poster knows where/when it is happening, a couple of phone calls to the local litter warden will get it sorted.

If you don't know where/when it is happening, then it's not happening.

1874

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Fly tipping happens.

This doesn't happen, and if it was, it could easily be stopped with one or two phone calls.

Fly tipping happens, but then it doesnt?
Which is it?

how is this sorted with a few phonecalls?

If you are omnipresent to know,why dont you just stop it in the first place?

[Deleted User]

1874 wrote: »

I wouldnt put it past some people, I have seen clearly where rubbish could only have been fired out the door of a van on numerous occasions, I even saw someone fire stuff into a canal from a moving vehicle, most managed to go in the canal, some hit the wall and went back on the path, so it does happen, I've seen it myself.

Fly tipping happens.

residents I know collectively organise vans to take bags of rubbish routinely and

This doesn't happen, and if it was, it could easily be stopped with one or two phone calls.

1874

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This didn't happen.

I wouldnt put it past some people, I have seen clearly where rubbish could only have been fired out the door of a van on numerous occasions, I even saw someone fire stuff into a canal from a moving vehicle, most managed to go in the canal, some hit the wall and went back on the path, so it does happen, I've seen it myself.

Dodge wrote: »

It wasn’t one letter. It was quite a bit of rubbish left in bags which included one letter with my address on it. I have no idea why the family that lives there didn’t deliver the letter but the fact they let so much crap outside their front door tells me they weren’t the most considerate types.

The council warden’s argument was that I was dumping all this rubbish in their front yard. They had checked the garden because their next door neighbour had complained about them. I don’t know if others were fined. I just know I was because one back of rubbish had a letter with my name and address on it.

You can do what you like. I was just posting to show that sometimes fines aren’t warranted and thankfully the council agreed with me and rescinded my fine

Well, thats different to what you described, and adds some detail that helps explain your earlier story. In that case maybe your letter got delivered to someone else completely ie another neighbour who subsequently dumped their rubbish in the garden of the neighbour that found it, the family that found the rubbish probably either never searched it and reported it where the council found the letter, OR they did search it and thought the cheek of that cnut DODGE at no. X, not realising it was not your doing, but thought so and reported you for it.

So they probably didnt deliver it to you and neither might I, thinking (incorrectly) that you were a selfish cnut for littering in their garden.

For the most part, I think people who litter can be lazy, too lazy to even remove identifying items like bills, I found stuff twice with names on it as we had a spate of dumping domestic rubbish at one point. Both instances clearly identified who and where they were from, one definitely had to be done by the person that entailed driving from a nearby estate and dumping their rubbish, I reported that and the council didnt seem interested, the next identifiable instance where we had rubbish dumped near us semi regularily. I took pictures, knocked on the persons door and informed them that they had some rubbish left near us that identified them multiple times, they looked stunned, more that they were caught, I suggested to them that it might appear they were littering and nicely said it might be a good idea if they cleaned it up, which they did, didnt waste my time with the council.
I have just had too many instances where I had to dispose of bags of other people's rubbish they just dumped, someone clearly thought myself and another neighbour were going to pay to dispose of it for them.

Dodge

1874 wrote: »

You say you got a fine for a letter in your name delivered to your neighbour, who must have known this (and didnt pass it on to you, ok possible) but then managed to leave it in their own yard (I wouldnt say necessarily a usual way to describe a part of a garden in an estate or group of houses), and then you got fined for littering in their garden/property/yard?? How/why would a littering fine be issued for 1 letter found on private property? I don't think the Councils have that much time on their hands or your neighbours to deal with one letter.

It wasn’t one letter. It was quite a bit of rubbish left in bags which included one letter with my address on it. I have no idea why the family that lives there didn’t deliver the letter but the fact they let so much crap outside their front door tells me they weren’t the most considerate types.

The council warden’s argument was that I was dumping all this rubbish in their front yard. They had checked the garden because their next door neighbour had complained about them. I don’t know if others were fined. I just know I was because one back of rubbish had a letter with my name and address on it.

I'm calling bull$hit here

You can do what you like. I was just posting to show that sometimes fines aren’t warranted and thankfully the council agreed with me and rescinded my fine

[Deleted User]

JustAThought wrote: »

some council estates Whose residents I know collectively organise vans to take bags of rubbish routinely and feck them out the sidedoor going down country lanes . disgusting behaviour.

This didn't happen.

1874

Dodge wrote: »

Just on this. A letter I was sent was mistakenly delivered to a house 4 doors down. They had rubbish out their front but I was fined as my name and address were on a letter found in their yard

I contacted the council and showed a record of my bin collections to show it was collected every week (including the weight so show it wasn’t full every week) and argued that I had no reason to litter

I got a letter back to say they had rescinded the fine

Look, I cant categorically state this didn't happen, but it started out sounding like a hypothetical example until the last line,

You say you got a fine for a letter in your name delivered to your neighbour, who must have known this (and didnt pass it on to you, ok possible) but then managed to leave it in their own yard (I wouldnt say necessarily a usual way to describe a part of a garden in an estate or group of houses), and then you got fined for littering in their garden/property/yard?? How/why would a littering fine be issued for 1 letter found on private property? I don't think the Councils have that much time on their hands or your neighbours to deal with one letter.

I'm calling bull$hit here, I don't think this happened you as described, I can see where it might happen.
I see people who put bins out regularily, with lids up because they are overfilled, quite possible for them to be having their rubbish blown down the road.
If you really had a fine rescinded, it's likely as you have a record of paying for rubbish removal and the council probably accepts one item just got out of your bin, but one item on private property :cool:
It would be different if along with that one letter there was a pile of other rubbish in their property plus something that identified you or you were routinely letting your bins overfill and stuff blowing down towards your neighbours, maybe they then made a complaint because whoever was doing that was identified, its possible they dont like you anyway, given they wouldnt return one letter to you with your name on it, but if it was along with other rubbish waste and there was a history of that (whether it came from your bin or not) then I might understand why this came about as a real scenario and see why they might not be happy, I think there is more to this than you are saying or worse, realise.

Dodge

brian_t wrote: »

Your Mother is responsible for making sure that letters addressed to her don't end up as litter. The other two individuals are equally responsible for making sure that letters addressed to them don't end up as litter.
It appears that there were three identifiable people responsible for the littering.

Just on this. A letter I was sent was mistakenly delivered to a house 4 doors down. They had rubbish out their front but I was fined as my name and address were on a letter found in their yard

I contacted the council and showed a record of my bin collections to show it was collected every week (including the weight so show it wasn’t full every week) and argued that I had no reason to litter

I got a letter back to say they had rescinded the fine

JustAThought

brian_t wrote: »

Your Mother is responsible for making sure that letters addressed to her don't end up as litter. The other two individuals are equally responsible for making sure that letters addressed to them don't end up as litter.
It appears that there were three identifiable people responsible for the littering.

Or as the case may be, fly tipping by three different people in the same spot.

some council estates Whose residents I know collectively organise vans to take bags of rubbish routinely and feck them out the sidedoor going down country lanes . disgusting behaviour. Won’t pay for their bins to be collected thou - or be arsed taking it to recycle which is free. Every piece of litter found that had a name or postcode or delivery barcode than be scanned and traced gets a per item fine. Personally I’m very happy with that situation.

brian_t

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

So the fine would be paid 3 times ?
The fine is €150,so once 1 person pays the fine would the other 2 still be chased too pay the fine too ?

Your Mother is responsible for making sure that letters addressed to her don't end up as litter. The other two individuals are equally responsible for making sure that letters addressed to them don't end up as litter.
It appears that there were three identifiable people responsible for the littering.

Pinoy adventure

General Toilet wrote: »

Say I as a council litter warden find a box with 3 letters inside for different people, how do I know who is responsible? 3 letters would be sent as the perpetrator is not known. Standard practice.

So the fine would be paid 3 times ?
The fine is €150,so once 1 person pays the fine would the other 2 still be chased too pay the fine too ?

General Toilet

Say I as a council litter warden find a box with 3 letters inside for different people, how do I know who is responsible? 3 letters would be sent as the perpetrator is not known. Standard practice.

Pinoy adventure

General Toilet wrote: »

Not the case.

Please explain what you mean

General Toilet

Not the case.

Pinoy adventure

General Toilet wrote: »

They will all get a letter from the council.

But once 1 person pays the fine that should be the end of it ? The fine is not €450 it's €150,so since the fine is paid surely that's the end of it.

Pinoy adventure

General Toilet wrote: »

They will all get a letter from the council.

But once 1 person pays the fine that should be the end of it ? The fine is not €450 it's €150,so since the fine is paid surely that's the end of it.

General Toilet

They will all get a letter from the council.

Pinoy adventure

longgonesilver wrote: »

Remember to close your lids!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40328084.html

Our case is sumthing very similar too this.im not going into the full details here but it was a simple mistake made by my mother.3 phone calls later too the litter warden- he had to bee seen too do sumthing.

My only concern is there was 3 letters with 3 different names in the bag,does all 3 people get fined or is it just 1 €150 fine ?

1874

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Gotta wonder why you brought up bins then. Yer man mentioned a cardboard box and you went into one about bins and curbs and wind and not overnight etc etc. LOL.

I thought you said goodluck! I didnt bother responding to that,
what that chap did sounded essentially like littering,
littering is basically ignorant and stupid, because people that do it, mostly do it where they live and it is easily avoidable, and relatively cheap to do right.

HalfAndHalf

1874 wrote: »

I checked and my council bye law says 8pm, although I read somewhere in T&Cs by my service provider, no earlier than a certain time on the day. Someone seemed up in arms about it, the bye law also refers to kerbside collection.
A lot of people do put their bins out the night before, which shouldnt be a problem unless there is weather thats likely to blow bins over. It would be useful if bins were all a standard design and had a basic latch mechanism that was operated when the bin was lifted, to open the lid, so if bins get blown over they dont spill their contents.
Anyway, this thread was about paying fines, either for blatant or negligent littering, not bins.

Gotta wonder why you brought up bins then. Yer man mentioned a cardboard box and you went into one about bins and curbs and wind and not overnight etc etc. LOL.

1874

Victor wrote: »

The bye-laws in Dublin City say that residents can leave out their bin from 5pm the previous day. I imagine other bye-laws are similar.

I checked and my council bye law says 8pm, although I read somewhere in T&Cs by my service provider, no earlier than a certain time on the day. Someone seemed up in arms about it, the bye law also refers to kerbside collection.
A lot of people do put their bins out the night before, which shouldnt be a problem unless there is weather thats likely to blow bins over. It would be useful if bins were all a standard design and had a basic latch mechanism that was operated when the bin was lifted, to open the lid, so if bins get blown over they dont spill their contents.
Anyway, this thread was about paying fines, either for blatant or negligent littering, not bins.