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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

brianhere

All social/population control measures introduced by the state security apparatus as a result of this health scare will be, and have always intended to be, permanent in my view. Here are a few reasons why:
a) Because they already have shown that they are stringing people along. The publicans, for example, have been assured every couple of weeks for the whole summer that they will be allowed to reopen, but the government had no intention of allowing this. First it was to stop the spread of the disease altogether, then it was 'flattening the curve' and now it is in response to an increase in cases which they know perfectly well had to follow an increase in testing. You don't want to be the donkey chasing the carrot here!

b) Because they have invested so much money and time in changing the whole apparatus of society, in schools for example, and other places. Clearly these changes were not implemented in order to disappear in only a few weeks, they show the planning and expense of permanent measures.

c) Because the state has a record of never releasing back to the population rights that they seized during some panic. A few examples:
i) During the hype about TB in the 1950s the state introduced a voluntary scheme to control the disease in cattle. It involved those who had tested negative for the disease to be given a special tag and the farmer a 'herd number'. This voluntary scheme then evolved into the state controlling all aspects of agricultural activity by only allowing any such activity - even keeping a few hens - with the permission of the state, via compulsory herd numbers.
ii) Similar to this current panic, in the 1970s the state amended earlier WWII legislation to enable it to abolish jury trials. This was a great shock to the legal profession - even to the then President - and affront to the time honoured legal practices in Ireland but it was rushed through on the basis of sunset clauses whereby it would have to be renewed every year, and hence was temporary. Of course it is still with us long after the troubles have ended.
iii) After 9/11 and some hyped episodes like 'underwear bombers', this state and all around the world introduced time consuming and very intrusive security procedures particularly at airports. This of course is still with us long after the scare has died down.

d) This last point I am sure some of you will not get, but I will make it anyway. These measures are being rolled out precisely because they have huge social and population control advantages for the state, hence they are only piggy backing on the virus to do what they have all along planned to do, and hence have no intention of ever releasing you in the future from their newly introduced grip.

So look if you want to get your life back you should join the demonstrations next Saturday at 2.00pm at the Customs House and the Dáil in Dublin. You will not get released from this vice otherwise, they will compel you to harm your own health via vaccines and masks (of course it harms your health by restricting your breathing, and harming your health does not help somebody else), and otherwise we will descend further into this nightmare of Communist style spying on neighbours and bullying people in the name of social conformity.

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[Deleted User]

buzzerxx wrote: »

There isn't one, there is many IMHO.

How come you can't point out any or explain any of them with any depth?

How come you have to dodge and ignore questions to defend all of these conspiracy theories?

crooked cockney villain

Micheal Martin has inadvertently admitted, it was all for nothing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/heal...lity-1.4608222

Defending the Government’s handling of the pandemic in the face of criticism from his party, he also said an average of 2,245 more people would have died if Ireland had followed the Swedish strategy which he said some people had called for.

Given the average median age of Covid death is, what, 83, and the vast, vast majority of those who have died of/ with Covid were already very seriously ill.....

....would I be correct in saying that the overwhelming majority of the 2245 people Micheal claims to have saved, have actually died anyway in the last 15 months? And that in the long term we will record higher deaths than Sweden because of cancer treatment delays?

Of the 2245 people, the stats suggest 1122 of them would be 83 years old and up.

Most of the rest weren't far off this age.

The majority of them already had very debilitating conditions and had not long left.

Have we tanked our economy, our social lives, our mental health, to save a group of people who have largely since died anyway? Cancers, sepsis, and the general accruement of ailments that come with advanced age?

Of course, there were fit, healthy 71 year olds who would have lived to 96 who died of Covid.

There have also no doubt been fit, healthy 27 year olds who would have lived to 96 who died of suicide due to the constant house arrest and the government refusing to even give a crumb of hope of a way out like Boris did.

Fighting Tao

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Micheal Martin has inadvertently admitted, it was all for nothing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/heal...lity-1.4608222

Given the average median age of Covid death is, what, 83, and the vast, vast majority of those who have died of/ with Covid were already very seriously ill.....

....would I be correct in saying that the overwhelming majority of the 2245 people Micheal claims to have saved, have actually died anyway in the last 15 months? And that in the long term we will record higher deaths than Sweden because of cancer treatment delays?

Of the 2245 people, the stats suggest 1122 of them would be 83 years old and up.

Most of the rest weren't far off this age.

The majority of them already had very debilitating conditions and had not long left.

Have we tanked our economy, our social lives, our mental health, to save a group of people who have largely since died anyway? Cancers, sepsis, and the general accruement of ailments that come with advanced age?

Of course, there were fit, healthy 71 year olds who would have lived to 96 who died of Covid.

There have also no doubt been fit, healthy 27 year olds who would have lived to 96 who died of suicide due to the constant house arrest and the government refusing to even give a crumb of hope of a way out like Boris did.

Is the quote meant to be The Taoiseach saying it was all for nothing, because it says no such thing.

Economy has not tanked, and saving 2.5k lives is not for nothing regardless if you are so heartless to write off elderly like you do. Other hospital services continued. People were getting their cancer treatments, scans etc.

Please provide evidence of your claim that a suicides increase during the pandemic.

Also, what is the conspiracy? Saving lives?

Dohnjoe

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Have we tanked our economy, our social lives, our mental health, to save a group of people who have largely since died anyway? Cancers, sepsis, and the general accruement of ailments that come with advanced age?

Yet another "**** the elderly" post.

Our economy hasn't tanked. Lockdown wasn't just to prevent deaths, it was to prevent our national health systems from being overrun, despite this several countries ran critically close to that scenario.

There have also no doubt been fit, healthy 27 year olds who would have lived to 96 who died of suicide due to the constant house arrest and the government refusing to even give a crumb of hope of a way out like Boris did.

There wasn't constant house arrest. Why do people feel the need to exaggerate the situation, also what's the conspiracy?

[Deleted User]

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Also, what is the conspiracy? Saving lives?

I thought we were being told that the plan was depopulation...

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There wasn't constant house arrest. Why do people feel the need to exaggerate the situation, also what's the conspiracy?

Because saying that you're resisting house arrest sounds cool, rebellious and heroic.
Complaining about being inconvenienced is a bit sad.

PintOfView

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Micheal Martin has inadvertently admitted, it was all for nothing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/heal...lity-1.4608222

Given the average median age of Covid death is, what, 83, and the vast, vast majority of those who have died of/ with Covid were already very seriously ill.....

....would I be correct in saying that the overwhelming majority of the 2245 people Micheal claims to have saved, have actually died anyway in the last 15 months? And that in the long term we will record higher deaths than Sweden because of cancer treatment delays?

Of the 2245 people, the stats suggest 1122 of them would be 83 years old and up.

Most of the rest weren't far off this age.

The majority of them already had very debilitating conditions and had not long left.

Have we tanked our economy, our social lives, our mental health, to save a group of people who have largely since died anyway? Cancers, sepsis, and the general accruement of ailments that come with advanced age?

Of course, there were fit, healthy 71 year olds who would have lived to 96 who died of Covid.

There have also no doubt been fit, healthy 27 year olds who would have lived to 96 who died of suicide due to the constant house arrest and the government refusing to even give a crumb of hope of a way out like Boris did.

It sounds like you're admitting that covid was real, and we're now debating the merits
of the strategy taken to combat the virus?

Re cancer delays,
- what makes you think that Sweden hasn't also got cancer delays (surely it wasn't just business as usual in their hospitals)?
- and if we didn't lock down what makes you think it would been business as usual in our hospitals, with no cancer delays?

If we didn't lock down why would we not be in the same place as regards cancer, etc.,
but with 2,500 more dead, and many more people with the effects of long Covid?

Ted_YNWA

Mod

This is not the place to discuss moderation of another forum.

Bring it to Helpdesk

buzzerxx

Woman on Newstalk "I just want him [her 16 year old son] vaccinated, I don't care what they give him, give him anything, just get him vaccinated"
And there you have it, in a single sentence, the perfect Irish citizen - uninfomed, unquestioning, credulous, and obedient.
She'll vote for the same one of the two main parties all her life, without ever thinking about it. She'll put up with political graft, economic incompetence, housing crisis after housing crisis, health crisis after health crisis, and never demand better. She'll shuffle through her life, head down, and never ask a hard question. She, and those like her, are the reason this country is a ****ing basket case. There are too many of us that never left the colony, never realised that this is our country now, and we need to demand higher standards. Because that means putting your head above the parapet, being the noisy one, being "difficult" and being "a whinger"
And can't have the neighbours thinking that of you, now can you?

EyesClosed

buzzerxx wrote: »

Woman on Newstalk "I just want him [her 16 year old son] vaccinated, I don't care what they give him, give him anything, just get him vaccinated"
And there you have it, in a single sentence, the perfect Irish citizen - uninfomed, unquestioning, credulous, and obedient.
She'll vote for the same one of the two main parties all her life, without ever thinking about it. She'll put up with political graft, economic incompetence, housing crisis after housing crisis, health crisis after health crisis, and never demand better. She'll shuffle through her life, head down, and never ask a hard question. She, and those like her, are the reason this country is a ****ing basket case. There are too many of us that never left the colony, never realised that this is our country now, and we need to demand higher standards. Because that means putting your head above the parapet, being the noisy one, being "difficult" and being "a whinger"
And can't have the neighbours thinking that of you, now can you?

What is all this waffle??
You take some random out of context quote from news talk and suddenly have the woman's voting history, and then suddenly bring up the colonies?? That's some leap... Also how does any of this nonsense have anything to do with covid measures being permanent?

[Deleted User]

buzzerxx wrote: »

Woman on Newstalk "I just want him [her 16 year old son] vaccinated, I don't care what they give him, give him anything, just get him vaccinated"
And there you have it, in a single sentence, the perfect Irish citizen - uninfomed, unquestioning, credulous, and obedient.
She'll vote for the same one of the two main parties all her life, without ever thinking about it. She'll put up with political graft, economic incompetence, housing crisis after housing crisis, health crisis after health crisis, and never demand better. She'll shuffle through her life, head down, and never ask a hard question. She, and those like her, are the reason this country is a ****ing basket case. There are too many of us that never left the colony, never realised that this is our country now, and we need to demand higher standards. Because that means putting your head above the parapet, being the noisy one, being "difficult" and being "a whinger"
And can't have the neighbours thinking that of you, now can you?

Cause all the vaccines are proven to be safe and drastically decrease the risk from covid. Eg I've had the az vaccine and I'd happily take any of them. I'm thirty, I'm considered high risk but overall on milder end. But I am pretty glad to be in a far safer position. I say this as a person who almost had a family member in their sixties die from COVID-19 and their life is drastically altered from it. Also I know of nurses who have lives drastically altered from long covid. So ya, you're just incredibly ignorant.

shocksy

Point proven again haha post deleted all because people don't want to take the vaccine which they are entitled to decide by themselves.

Why are you shutting down posts like these?????

Who's orders are you following? Don't give me the whole talk to helpdesk malarkey. They don't respond there. So, is boards taking direct orders from the government to shut down threads or posts were people decide they don't want the vaccine? Is it to stop other people following suit?

Timberrrrrrrr

shocksy wrote: »

Point proven again haha post deleted all because people don't want to take the vaccine which they are entitled to decide by themselves.

Except that's not what happened is it?

Why are you shutting down posts like these?????

Did you not read the explanation?

Who's orders are you following? Don't give me the whole talk to helpdesk malarkey. They don't respond there. So, is boards taking direct orders from the government to shut down threads or posts were people decide they don't want the vaccine? Is it to stop other people following suit?

The paranoia is strong in this one :pac:

The Nal

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The paranoia is strong in this one :pac:

Absolutely bananas. The government shutting down a thread thats read by about 5 people.

[Deleted User]

The Nal wrote: »

Absolutely bananas. The government shutting down a thread thats read by about 5 people.

The funniest part is it seems to upset them that vaccine hesitancy is incredibly low in Ireland. The conspiracies have failed.

buzzerxx

I almost caught COVID yesterday but I quickly stood on a social
distancing sticker and put an end to that s**t. The control will be permanent.

Dr. Bre

I heard the Taoiseach reads this thread

Fighting Tao

buzzerxx wrote: »

I almost caught COVID yesterday but I quickly stood on a social
distancing sticker and put an end to that s**t. The control will be permanent.

The thing is they no one forced you to stand 2m apart. Sure you know that.

PintOfView

buzzerxx wrote: »

I almost caught COVID yesterday but I quickly stood on a social
distancing sticker and put an end to that s**t. The control will be permanent.

What's the obsession about 'control'?

Imagine for a second that the virus was real, and did cause people to die, and caused hospitals to get overrun,
how would you propose we, or the government, should deal with it?

Just collectively sit on our hands and do nothing, and let nature take its course,
is that you would propose we do with a real virus?

Dohnjoe

buzzerxx wrote: »

Woman on Newstalk "I just want him [her 16 year old son] vaccinated, I don't care what they give him, give him anything, just get him vaccinated"
And there you have it, in a single sentence, the perfect Irish citizen - uninfomed, unquestioning, credulous, and obedient.
She'll vote for the same one of the two main parties all her life, without ever thinking about it. She'll put up with political graft, economic incompetence, housing crisis after housing crisis, health crisis after health crisis, and never demand better. She'll shuffle through her life, head down, and never ask a hard question. She, and those like her, are the reason this country is a ****ing basket case. There are too many of us that never left the colony, never realised that this is our country now, and we need to demand higher standards. Because that means putting your head above the parapet, being the noisy one, being "difficult" and being "a whinger"
And can't have the neighbours thinking that of you, now can you?

Any answer to the questions put to you about your conspiracies or just going to endlessly evade them?

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Any answer to the questions put to you about your conspiracies or just going to endlessly evade them?

We've had over 5000 posts.
No conspiracy theorists have been able to answer more than two questions about their theory.

Do you think they ever wonder why it is they have to do that?

buzzerxx

Fighting Tao wrote: »

The thing is they no one forced you to stand 2m apart. Sure you know that.

Yes they did, couple of times i have been told to move back or stand there or paranoid brainwashed sheeple giving each other the glare if they get too close to each other

[Deleted User]

buzzerxx wrote: »

Yes they did, couple of times i have been told to move back or stand there or paranoid brainwashed sheeple giving each other the glare if they get too close to each other

Cause you should respect another person's boundaries during a global pandemic. I'm vaccinated and don't distance from other vaccinated people. The sheeple rhetoric is just a tad moronic, you have a conspiracy but can't give an end goal with it...

[Deleted User]

buzzerxx wrote: »

Yes they did, couple of times i have been told to move back or stand there or paranoid brainwashed sheeple giving each other the glare if they get too close to each other

Again, as you admitted by refusing to answer questions directed to you, you believe everything you are told to by facebook conspiracy mongers.

You shouldn't be throwing around terms like "Brainwashed" and "Sheeple."

PintOfView

buzzerxx wrote: »

Yes they did, couple of times i have been told to move back or stand there or paranoid brainwashed sheeple giving each other the glare if they get too close to each other

Isn't it you who is one of the sheeple, for believing fake stuff from the internet, that is not real?
Why don't you check some of what you read before believing it?

Fighting Tao

buzzerxx wrote: »

Yes they did, couple of times i have been told to move back or stand there or paranoid brainwashed sheeple giving each other the glare if they get too close to each other

Stop telling lies. No one forcibly placed you on 2m ground marking. You choose to be a sheep by being herded there by someone, but they didn’t force you.

C_SquaredInk

Newbie here - Hi! And just on first glance (and correct me if I am totally wrong), but I find it hilarious that in the "Non Conspiracy" threads, they are pretty hardcore on not talking "conspiracy" stuff -- Yet on this thread, people who specifically come here to discuss are still "bullied" somewhat by others? Maybe I am wrong. I hope so!

See, THAT'S the thing folks don't quite get with "conspiracy theory" stuff - that's just a label to slap on people who like to question what's going on; ask and inquire and think about different possibilities...Sure, there is a whole spectrum of beliefs and thoughts/opinions within it, but the key point (at least what I figured) was being open to discussion without judgement.
Idealistic? Mayhaps!

In any case, glad to be here - trying to connect with folk on the goings-on around the world. I am not in Ireland - though it was my dream to live there since I was 5; have family/friends there as well....We will see since traveling is all but extinct for people who don't want something forced upon them by the government. We fled the US right before the "outbreak"; knew something was going down in 2020. Hope someday to keep moving on!
~CD

C_SquaredInk

Wow...well hello to you too.
Thank you for correcting me, but this kind of proves my point.
I'm...not....new.....okay.....

I would never speak like this to anyone; not sure what the deal is here.

[Deleted User]

C_SquaredInk wrote: »

Yet on this thread, people who specifically come here to discuss are still "bullied" somewhat by others? Maybe I am wrong. I hope so!

No one is being bullied.
Being asked to explain your beliefs is not bullying.
Pointing out people are dodging and ignore questions is not bullying.
Pointing out where claims are unsupported or wrong is not bullying.

Claiming bullying and hiding behind that claim to explain away the deficiencies of the conspiracy theories is a bit ridiculous.

Why do you believe not a single conspiracy theorist has not been able to explain what measures will be permanent and why?
Why do you believe people keep avoiding and ignoring this question?

C_SquaredInk wrote: »

See, THAT'S the thing folks don't quite get with "conspiracy theory" stuff - that's just a label to slap on people who like to question what's going on; ask and inquire and think about different possibilities...

No, it what these things are called.
If you are suggesting that there's a giant global conspiracy behind something, for which you've no evidence or reasoning for, and you are using clues and hints found by internet detectives and conspiracy peddlers, it's a conspiracy theory.
What term would you prefer people use for this?

Grofus

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

1,You are wrong

2, You're wrong again and no one's being "bullied"

3, You're not "new"

When the evidence points to a sustained and deliberate control of freedoms, liberties and rights to life then you can be fairly certain that's what is happening.
Why do you constantly ignore what is going on right in front of your eyes. Are they closed?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course they are. But, the points above aren't just opinion, are they!
If you think, as I have read in your previous comments, that normality will return soon, then you, and others on here are in for a shock. Hopefully, even a wake up call.
The only way the freedoms you enjoyed 18 months ago will be restored, is if you are prepared to fight for them.
A wise man once said "before you make your mind up, you need to open it"
I am, if you haven't guessed, what you would label a conspiracy theorist. However, my aim is to find the truth because one thing I have learnt is, you will never get it from government or the mainstream media.
There is an article in the Daily Exposé about a Lisbon courts findings regarding Covid 19 death rates in Portugal. Open your mind and read it.

( I would post the link but as a new forum user I can't be trusted yet)

[Deleted User]

Grofus wrote: »

When the evidence points to a sustained and deliberate control of freedoms, liberties and rights to life then you can be fairly certain that's what is happening.
Why do you constantly ignore what is going on right in front of your eyes. Are they closed?

Ok. If this is the case then, perhaps you can answer the questions that have been dodged for the last 5000 posts.

What measures specifically are going to be permanent?
Why are those measures specifically going to be permanent? How do they benefit those behind the "sustained and deliberate control of freedoms, liberties and rights to life"?
Who specifically is behind "sustained and deliberate control of freedoms, liberties and rights to life"?

One reason most rational people don't buy into the conspiracy theory you believe is obvious is because you cats don't answer these questions.
Why would anyone believe you when you can't actually explain your conspiracy theory and you seem allergic to talking about it directly?

Also, why should we take a crank site like the Daily Expose seriously when it's be caught out in so many lies?
What did you do to verify that story you want others to read? How do you know it's actually true and accurately represented? How do you know it's not just misinformation by conspiracy mongers to fool gullible people?