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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Zzippy

Continued on from previous threads. Title can be decided if we get better suggestions than the placeholder. We may run a poll.

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molloyjh

TRC10 wrote: »

Yeah but we gave a few the week before vs the USA (Porter, Ryan, Stockdale, Scannell, Heffernan)

So it's not a direct comparison

And we'll likely give a few caps next week vs the USA too. It is a very, very close comparison...

sprucemoose

shootermacg wrote: »

Apologies Of course you're right. We've never made it that far, with our best selections

im gonna again be that guy and point out ireland has got to the QFs most times, its the SFs that havent been reached

[Deleted User]

TRC10 wrote: »

Yeah but we gave a few the week before vs the USA (Porter, Ryan, Stockdale, Scannell, Heffernan)

So it's not a direct comparison

And we likely do next week again vs the usa so it's about as close as you can get

shootermacg

A cap in the national squad is something that should be hard to earn. It's not a creche. Farrel is saying, if you're good enough, you'll get a start sometime. Daly had to wait for his.
Coombes is good enough for a bench place after just 1 full season starting for Munster.

Young lads have plenty of time to bed in and get to know the structure etc, without having to go through the pressure. Only the coaching team have seen these guys training, so I'd trust them to know who's ready and who isn't.

TRC10

nerd69 wrote: »

And we likely do next week again vs the usa so it's about as close as you can get

I just hope we don't change the entire XV and hand all 12 guys their caps.

We'll just get a poor, disjointed performance and gain absolutely nothing from it.

Baloucoune should come in for one of the wingers.

Hume I'd bring in for Farrell

Casey for JGP (Blade on the bench)

Bring H.Byrne onto the bench.

Baird and Coombes for Dillane and POM

sydthebeat

molloyjh wrote: »

And we'll likely give a few caps next week vs the USA too. It is a very, very close comparison...

100%

The USA is by far the easier of the two summer games, and where we will see much more debutants and inexperience.

We will do well not to lose this game on Saturday. Im not at all convinced 11 to 14 are going to be a cohesive defending unit.

roverjoyce

The benefits of central contracts!!
Why not give youth a chance against a well prepared and up to speed Japan team

Squidgy Black

roverjoyce wrote: »

The benefits of central contracts!!
Why not give youth a chance against a well prepared and up to speed Japan team

Eh, there's one player in that 23 on a central contract.

bilston

At first glance I was disappointed with the selection.

But on further inspection there are 9 players with fewer than 10 caps, so it players are getting a chance.

If the same team was or is put against the USA I'd be a bit more annoyed. But we are playing a good team on Saturday who get well beat us on Saturday to be honest.

sydthebeat

roverjoyce wrote: »

The benefits of central contracts!!
Why not give youth a chance against a well prepared and up to speed Japan team

oh man, what a hilariously wide of the mark statement

[Deleted User]

Any bookies showing odds?

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Any bookies showing odds?

ireland -10 currently

started -13, went as short as -9 at one stage.

TRC10

Just to clarify, I don't think we should be handing out caps left right and centre.

It's not so much about giving out caps, but making intelligent future planning selections, blooding guys who will be part of the squad in 2023. The starting XV is more or less ok, apart from the centres.

He's picked 2 crash ball centres, who can pass and offload, but neither are creative or have an outside break. It's an unbalanced pairing.

Baloucoune has been in camp as a development player and he's broken into the Ulster team and has been in great form. He'd be worth a bench spot over Daly, who is good, but hasn't as high a ceiling and isn't in the Munster 1st XV.

And John Ryan on the bench just has me in absolute despair..

salmocab

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Eh, there's one player in that 23 on a central contract.

Nobody cares about facts when there’s outrage to be vented

Former Former Former

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Eh, there's one player in that 23 on a central contract.

Well, there are two, but I think your point still stands.

TRC10

Former Former Former wrote: »

Well, there are two, but I think your point still stands.

3

Ryan, POM and Stockdale

aloooof

TRC10 wrote: »

I know we're playing a good team but jesus christ.

TRC10 wrote: »

The starting XV is more or less ok, apart from the centres.

The lesser known "Wow, that de-escalated quickly" trope.

[Deleted User]

TRC10 wrote: »

Just to clarify, I don't think we should be handing out caps left right and centre.

It's not so much about giving out caps, but making intelligent future planning selections, blooding guys who will be part of the squad in 2023. The starting XV is more or less ok, apart from the centres.

He's picked 2 crash ball centres, who can pass and offload, but neither are creative or have an outside break. It's an unbalanced pairing.

Baloucoune has been in camp as a development player and he's broken into the Ulster team and has been in great form. He'd be worth a bench spot over Daly, who is good, but hasn't as high a ceiling and isn't in the Munster 1st XV.

And John Ryan on the bench just has me in absolute despair..

Why do you keep mentioning Daly's ceiling? He's rapid the same age and has more appearances at club level both have 7s pace Daly has more positional flexibility

TRC10

aloooof wrote: »

The lesser known "Wow, that de-escalated quickly" trope.

Not at all. I still think it's an absolute joke that John Ryan is on the bench against one of the weaker scrummaging nations when so much time has been invested in Tom O'Toole.

McCloskey and Farrell is an incredibly blunt, one dimensional centre pairing that will just go route one and won't cause Japan any real problems.

It's also ridiculous that there's no room for Baloucoune or Hume on the bench.

On a positive note though, it's good to see Carbery back. He has a big chance to nail down the 10 jersey.

TomsOnTheRoof

I would have liked to have seen one of Daly or Balacoune start in the back three. I would also have liked to have seen Coombes get a start. Ryan is a wasted opportunity on the bench and that's coming from a Munster fan. All in all it's just a bit underwhelming.

Former Former Former

nerd69 wrote: »

Why do you keep mentioning Daly's ceiling? He's rapid the same age and has more appearances at club level both have 7s pace Daly has more positional flexibility

In fairness, with Keenan, Larmour, Stockdale and Carbery in the side, we're unlikely to need Daly at FB

TRC10

nerd69 wrote: »

Why do you keep mentioning Daly's ceiling? He's rapid the same age and has more appearances at club level both have 7s pace Daly has more positional flexibility

He's 2 years older and not as good as Baloucoune.

He has more appearances because he's older.

So what if he's versatile? It's a one off summer test, and there's enough versatility so sort it out if someone gets injured. Larmour or Carbery can go to 15 and Larmour can cover 13.

irelandrover

I'd have liked to see Coombes start instead of POM in the back row as i feel the other two have played together enough that they are experienced enough together. THey dont need POM in there for experience.

Also like to see Balacoume play instead of stockdale as Larmour and Keenan are familiar enough together.

the above changes would have been a little experimental without compromising the overall side

shootermacg

Former Former Former wrote: »

In fairness, with Keenan, Larmour, Stockdale and Carbery in the side, we're unlikely to need Daly at FB

Coombes and Baird are frightening prospects. Both early 20s and both close to 120kg. In a few years both could be 130Kg plus, that's SA levels of big.

briandebum

Its a classic conservative Farrell Irish rugby starting 15. I think you need to see what the young players can do against a good test side like Japan, were not going to learn much seeing them play against a USA side that will likely be overwhelmed no matter who plays.

molloyjh

TRC10 wrote: »

Not at all. I still think it's an absolute joke that John Ryan is on the bench against one of the weaker scrummaging nations when so much time has been invested in Tom O'Toole.

McCloskey and Farrell is an incredibly blunt, one dimensional centre pairing that will just go route one and won't cause Japan any real problems.

It's also ridiculous that there's no room for Baloucoune or Hume on the bench.

On a positive note though, it's good to see Carbery back. He has a big chance to nail down the 10 jersey.

Hume only covers centre so if he's on the bench then we either have no cover with at 10 or in the back 3. At least Larmour offers cover at 13 and 15 which would give scope to include Balacoune.

As for the centres, it was the only realistic selection. With Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose and Addison all unavailable our options were basically non-existent. Hume is too inexperienced to start his first game against a very decent Japan.

I agree re Ryan.

DonVito

I wonder what the likes of Hume and Balacoune think when they see the likes of Farrell and Daly on the team sheet. They absolutely smoke those lads at club level but somehow they sit behind them internationally. Shane Daly..... it’s like Sam
Coghlan Murray being on the bench. Waste of time. Farrell has been extremely disappointing in his selections during the 6 nations and now this too.

molloyjh

DonVito wrote: »

I wonder what the likes of Hume and Balacoune think when they see the likes of Farrell and Daly on the team sheet. They absolutely smoke those lads at club level but somehow they sit behind them internationally. Shane Daly..... it’s like Sam
Coghlan Murray being on the bench. Waste of time. Farrell has been extremely disappointing in his selections during the 6 nations and now this too.

I'd say Hume is well aware of why he isn't involved. Japan are a good side who are good at getting width onto the ball. They will test our ability to shut that off, which would be a big ask for Hume to do on his debut. That one makes sense to me.

clsmooth

shootermacg wrote: »

Coombes and Baird are frightening prospects. Both early 20s and both close to 120kg. In a few years both could be 130Kg plus, that's SA levels of big.

Ryan Baird is no where near 120kg at the moment. I’d also argue that he’d probably lose his best asset (athleticism) if he was 120kg+. I doubt Coombes will ever hit 130kg either. Or 120kg at that. He’s a big lump but not that big.

TRC10

molloyjh wrote: »

Hume only covers centre so if he's on the bench then we either have no cover with at 10 or in the back 3. At least Larmour offers cover at 13 and 15 which would give scope to include Balacoune.

As for the centres, it was the only realistic selection. With Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose and Addison all unavailable our options were basically non-existent. Hume is too inexperienced to start his first game against a very decent Japan.

I agree re Ryan.

Hume can play 12, 13 and wing.

Saying he's too inexperienced is just classic Irish conservatism.

He's been Ulster's 1st choice 13 for 2 full seasons.

He's started Pro14 finals, he's started H Cup games.

He's far more experienced than Kelleher, Doris or Keenan were when they made their debuts.